Author Topic: The dry run - lets get going!  (Read 7535 times)

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Offline Teyl Maktoyu Ayfìwopxä

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Re: The dry run - lets get going!
« Reply #100 on: January 04, 2011, 08:28:17 am »
If you build a dam you'd need quite some wood/sand/stone and probably some material that makes it hard as concrete, and on places like islands you cant really build a dam, what about a watermill? If the water has a strong enough currency then you can get power all day.

Offline Key'ìl Nekxetse

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Re: The dry run - lets get going!
« Reply #101 on: January 04, 2011, 04:16:31 pm »
This was incase access to running water is not possible, and is reliant on having excess electricity.
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Offline Maweyatan

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Re: The dry run - lets get going!
« Reply #102 on: January 18, 2011, 11:52:58 pm »
I thought the point of living as the first people/Na'vi did would mean that you wouldn't have electricity...Just saying.

About the dam: This reminds me so much of the Belo Monte Dam right now, because you'd be cutting water off and "partially" flooding a certain area.

The process of getting electricity for the tribe/village would be much more detrimental than not having electricity.

My thoughts: Make the non-tribe village VERY close to civilization, so that there are wireless signals. That way, if there was an emergency, or if you needed to contact the outside world, you could do it that way.

Also, if this project isn't going to start until 2019 (I read this from a different thread/page (I can't remember)), then I don't expect for there to be many places to choose from.

I'm not disagreeing with the ideas for this project, I am only pointing out the "flaws" (I don't see them as this, I just can't think of a better word.) so that this real-life tribe could work and be friendly to the ecosystem that you'd all be living in.

~Maweyatan (Yes, I did join this project.)


Offline Key'ìl Nekxetse

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Re: The dry run - lets get going!
« Reply #103 on: January 19, 2011, 01:20:33 am »
We need some electricity to be able to stay up to date on what is happening elsewhere, but we don't plan on using much technology at all.
Hydro power doesn't necessarily need a dam. I've seen waterwheels that use the kinetic energy of a stream directly, meaning that it has little effect on the surrounding area.
I think we wanted a satellite connection.
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Offline Sylwanin

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Re: The dry run - lets get going!
« Reply #104 on: January 19, 2011, 03:02:47 pm »
Hello!
New meat here.
I think this project of yours is really cool, and while I don't have the guts to join it, I will stick around and offer suggestions [if you don't mind? and please tell me if you do mind].

Now, I wanted to comment on this ongoing discussion about technology that can be brought into the forest. Personally, I think that talking about technology at this point is very premature and kind of pointless. Mostly because this tribe will not be up and running anytime soon, and so technology will still have time to change. In my opinion, I think more people will start wanting to live in the forest in these next few years, and I except that there will be changes in technology to support that.

What you really should be worrying about right now is getting to know the members, bonding, creating a culture and creating a lifestyle. Don't just think about how to survive in the forest. Think about how to LIVE in it. You don't want to leave this very important part until you get to the forest and realize that you can't stand each other.
And then, there are many other things to consider for the long term. For instance, how will old people climb to the tree houses? How will children be born? Or even, what will women do during menstruation?
What would you do with disabled children or guys who start raping the women [IF that happens]?
« Last Edit: January 19, 2011, 03:04:49 pm by Sylwanin »

Offline Key'ìl Nekxetse

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Re: The dry run - lets get going!
« Reply #105 on: January 20, 2011, 03:35:08 am »
Offer to your heart's content ;)

It helps if we decide on what we want now, and while it may be a bit out of date, it should be much cheaper in a few years. Most of the technology we need probably won't change as fast as computers will, so it should be manageable.

I'm interest in your reasoning behind "more people will start wanting to live in the forest in these next few years", I hope you're right, but can you explain please?

For a while we used an IRC server to get a bit more familiar, but numbers are so variable, it hasn't lasted.

Sadly, there hasn't been much talk about old age so on, but another group have talked at length about some several problems, and they have viable solutions. Hopefully we can get help from them if we need to.
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Offline Tonbogiri

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Re: The dry run - lets get going!
« Reply #106 on: January 20, 2011, 04:27:13 am »
Heh, maybe 2019 is a bit far off... hoping a bit before then!

Sylwanin, your point is extremely valid - we are living, not surviving. We had discussions on the prospect of children very early on in this venture - and while it would of course be idyllic to have a generation who learned to live like the Na'Vi, it is simply not safe or practical. I believe that apart from maybe residential camping courses (which we may offer to help with running costs), children will not be allowed on site.
In terms of how we handle pregnancy and the needs of women, this is one of the reasons we need to have a regularly supplied basic medical kit onsite. This should, of course, contain tampons for any woman who needs them. If a pregnancy occurs (we ought to also have pregnancy tests onsite too), then that person (and their partner) may be asked to temporarily leave the tribe, or at least move to more comfortable housing (if you read back a bit, we aim to have some kind of modern building in the general area). I am hoping also that financial aid could be provided in these situations, and I hope we can make room for that in our budget.

It goes without saying that ANY misconduct will be met with expulsion. We do need to get along - as we get closer to the time, meeting up may become more possible. Plus, the simple fact that we all have the same aim here should allow us to get along better.

Tree houses and the elderly? Doubtless we can have houses on the ground too. But people need to be realistic - if you are infirm or disabled (and I have seen 80-year olds leap about like frogs...), then this lifestyle is simply not suited for you. For this reason, after a degree of training, a physical test may be a good idea.

To Maweyatan: There is unfortunately a borderline with how close we can be to the Na'Vi. In this modern world, there will be many obstacles in our way - rules, laws and darned health and safety. If you look back through this thread (it is getting a bit long now, I admit) we summarise the reasons for needing electricity - I think people are just considering how to make that electricity.


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Offline Eywayä lì'u

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Re: The dry run - lets get going!
« Reply #107 on: January 20, 2011, 08:47:15 am »
Due to the ideal situation where electricity is needed very little/ only in emergency, a simple set of solar cells would suffice? They take up little room and run silent.
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Offline Tonbogiri

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Re: The dry run - lets get going!
« Reply #108 on: January 20, 2011, 03:58:38 pm »
Hopefully our location will be fairly sunny. Solar cells therefore should work - but per panel they produce little electricity. Of course, I am no expert - if anybody knows such a tech wiz, ask them (also applies to techies here with us now):

Would solar panels be enough to run: A basic computer
                                                  Satellite Phone
                                                  A small fridge (may not be necessary, only for specialised medication)
                                                  Charge batteries of emergency equipment (i.e. defribrillator)

I am hopeful - it is possible to charge mobile phones using a small solar panel.


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Re: The dry run - lets get going!
« Reply #109 on: January 20, 2011, 04:52:41 pm »
People use solar panels to run full houses with all kinds of tainted human technology, so I'm sure about 24' - 36' ft2 of solar panel should be more than enough to hold up the 4 things listed.

Offline Tonbogiri

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Re: The dry run - lets get going!
« Reply #110 on: January 21, 2011, 12:45:26 pm »
Well good! All we need is a sunny location. Oddly enough, I have been told that the Hawaiian location we were recently researching is in fact on the wet side of the island, and we should expect tropical storms and flooding. Whoopee...solar panels may not work there.
On the other hand, an australian location I am looking at seems to have a lot of sun!

EDIT: This topic reaches 111 posts...and I reach 333. Spooky...
« Last Edit: January 21, 2011, 12:46:59 pm by Tonbogiri »


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Offline Sylwanin

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Re: The dry run - lets get going!
« Reply #111 on: January 21, 2011, 10:40:27 pm »
It helps if we decide on what we want now, and while it may be a bit out of date, it should be much cheaper in a few years. Most of the technology we need probably won't change as fast as computers will, so it should be manageable.

I sure hope our technology advances more in a couple of years than just lowering prices. And I'm not against you using technology. Especially not for the things you want to use it for. It's just something to think about. When the time comes, I'm sure this topic will need revisiting, if not starting all over.
It's just that, in a way, you want to create a whole new lifestyle, based on a completely different environment.
That means wearing handmade outfits, singing randomly while running around in the forest, and very possibly dancing. All within a small, close group. This is essentially creating a new culture, a new world. It is a concept in progress. A concept that needs to be developed unrealistically at first, and then adapted to the real world. You have to make this fun, exciting, colourful and epic. Otherwise you're just a group of people trying to learn how to hunt.
I thought this tribe was a way to escape from the 'real life' and live out your dreams. And you guys are talking about what battery to take there.
Maybe I got it all wrong, but maybe you need to approach this from a different angle.

Quote
I'm interest in your reasoning behind "more people will start wanting to live in the forest in these next few years", I hope you're right, but can you explain please?

Oh, that was purely hypothetical and coming from me. I think that the way you guys have [for lack of a better word] 'awakened', so will many others in the future. Environmental changes and disasters, not to mention new issues that will come up thanks to pollution, will either make people fear nature, or start appreciating it more. It's just a matter of time, in my opinion.

Quote
This should, of course, contain tampons for any woman who needs them.

How will they be disposed of? And is it going to be a stock that will need to be refilled regularly?

Quote
It goes without saying that ANY misconduct will be met with expulsion.

How will you force people out of your space?

Quote
Tree houses and the elderly?

Okay, so let's say you're ~25 and you move into a forest. You have children etc, and then after 40 years spent in the forest, you realize that you're getting a bit old. Are you going to leave the forest? Unless you're planning to 'visit' the modern world from time to time, I think that would be too much of a culture shock. And unless you live in a forest 1 hr away from the city, you would need money for plane tickets/boat to go on these trips to the modern world - money which can't be earned from the forest [depending on location].
Also, you mentioned that old people and pregnant women could live in ground houses. Weren't  tree houses supposed to be safer?


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Re: The dry run - lets get going!
« Reply #112 on: January 21, 2011, 11:57:16 pm »
Woah, I was hoping not to bring up reproduction until we got past the location point...


Offline Tsyal Maktoyu

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Re: The dry run - lets get going!
« Reply #113 on: January 22, 2011, 02:19:20 am »
That's actually a misconception, Eana. The reason for the lower life expectancy for primitive people is the higher infant mortality rate, coupled with a lower population (smaller measurement pool). Those that live to adulthood live into their 60s and 70s, just like civies.

http://ryan-koch.blogspot.com/2009/05/reality-of-primitive-peoples-lifespan.html
« Last Edit: January 22, 2011, 02:21:02 am by Tsyal Maktoyu »


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Offline Tonbogiri

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Re: The dry run - lets get going!
« Reply #114 on: January 23, 2011, 04:34:50 am »
Sylwanin - we do want this to be fun and meaningful, we do. It was wanting to be like the Na'Vi which brought me to this idea in the first place, and I have not stopped wanting that dream. We absolutely want to make this our own culture, with our own rules and guidances, and even beliefs (careful there, not wanting to sound like a religious cult!).
But. We want this to work, and actually happen. Therefore, very sadly, we must deal in practicality. For example, it would be unlikely that we would qualify for immigration visas if we asked "to form our own tribal culture" - it is a shame. After all, we would not be economically contributing to the country itself, nor providing an essential or innovative service. We therefore, for now at least, have to form a business plan - which assumes that we have to do everything by the book, by the rules, and aims to have an income. It would be great to go the other way about it - problem is, in this wold of health and safety, we may be stopped and halted before this can come to fruition. Oddly enough, I think we already went through the unrealistic phase - back in January 2010, we had pages of discussions on rules and tribal governent. We then realised how hard it was to find a location. Once we have one, then we can begin the fun side of thigs in earnest!

And surely, if we can inspire more people to get closer to the world around them, and give them a different way of living or even simply increase their awareness of nature, then we should! That could even be our angle - people could come from all over the world to learn these skills firsthand from us.

Tampon disposal/resupply - Odd as it sounds, but i my location searches I am struggling to find any half decent properties that are more than one or two hours from civilisation. Therefore, we could easily arrange some sort of regular supply/waste removal - but only for waste such as this (i.e. non bio-degradable). We want to be as close to nature as possible, so having dustbins wouldn't really fit in.

Ground houses or tree houses - If the location we decide upon has the right type of trees, then treehouses would be viable. But, they are much harder to construct, and are more disastrous if built wrong. In terms of safety, then trees would be safer but only in certain circumstances - tree dwelling snakes, insects and the like would have no problem getting into our buildings that way.

How would we make people leave - I think this requires future discussion, but right now I cannot say. It is all very well to say we would "drive them out" but then that leaves opportunity for legal action on their part. IN terms of when people need to leave for other reasons, such as old age, then I am hoping that we can set up partnerships with wilderness awareness schools in the world to provide a job for those people and also help then re-integrate back into society. I am also hoping that we will have some sort  of tribal income, as it would mean that financial aid could be given to those leaving.

I hope this has cleared up any problems - I admit, seeing our original idea and then looking at the current topics makes us seem slightly odd..."we want to be a tribe - what programming language do you use?"


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Offline Na'vin Nos'feratxu

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Re: The dry run - lets get going!
« Reply #115 on: January 23, 2011, 11:55:58 pm »
Ok everyone, sorry for my rather short disappearance..
Oeyäl tsmukan ma Tonbogiri eyawr lu.

Finding and deciding on a location is of top priority at this current point in time.
If a place is decided, and the place is in the United States, I can confirm that becoming a US citizen is very simple.
So dont worry yourselves with this issue.

However, obtaining the money required to purchase a said location...there in lies the real problem.
I myself work full time here in the USA for $11.50 an hour, 42 hours a week, and I myself am barely able to make ends meet.
Taxes, food, fuel, utilities, rent, maintenance....the cost of living is becoming ridiculous.
My point is, the more modern convenience that is brought into our way of life, the more we will need money to maintain it.
The less, the better. Otherwise we are no different than where we are now.

I have lived alone, out in the wilderness, and I will return to it. It is still my greatest hope to have you all do the same, and for once in the history of Modern society show the world how its done.

This journey is not a vacation mind you, its adopting a new way of life. Taking it in stride and standing by it.
I myself am not interesting in doing this just to show the world.... I am doing this for myself...and as should you.

Tribes still exist today, in several counties. Deprived of any and all modern day people and things.
They have kept their way of life, just as we should reclaim ours.
However our ideals and views will vary from theirs, we share the same beliefs...our planet, our home...respect it...enjoy it.

I know many of you believe that going without modern association would be just stupid. (hospitals etc)
Srane, it would be. but ONLY use things like these when its ONLY absolutely necessary.

I'll tell you now, that once you go out into the wilderness, you will have withdrawals...for several days.
You will miss foods, you will miss friends, family, other activities that are limited to City life.
You will be afraid of the wilderness, because its a completely new, and hard to understand place.
If you can master wild-life just as you have mastered city-life, then you will be more happy than you have every imagined.

The connection between the world, and you, really does exist. Its a mutual understanding.
I feeling of calm, peace...feeling as if you actually belong to something better than "the man."

    
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Offline Maweyatan

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Re: The dry run - lets get going!
« Reply #116 on: January 24, 2011, 05:51:29 am »
Ok everyone, sorry for my rather short disappearance..
Oeyäl tsmukan ma Tonbogiri eyawr lu.

Finding and deciding on a location is of top priority at this current point in time.
If a place is decided, and the place is in the United States, I can confirm that becoming a US citizen is very simple.
So dont worry yourselves with this issue.

However, obtaining the money required to purchase a said location...there in lies the real problem.
I myself work full time here in the USA for $11.50 an hour, 42 hours a week, and I myself am barely able to make ends meet.
Taxes, food, fuel, utilities, rent, maintenance....the cost of living is becoming ridiculous.
My point is, the more modern convenience that is brought into our way of life, the more we will need money to maintain it.
The less, the better. Otherwise we are no different than where we are now.

I have lived alone, out in the wilderness, and I will return to it. It is still my greatest hope to have you all do the same, and for once in the history of Modern society show the world how its done.

This journey is not a vacation mind you, its adopting a new way of life. Taking it in stride and standing by it.
I myself am not interesting in doing this just to show the world.... I am doing this for myself...and as should you.

Tribes still exist today, in several counties. Deprived of any and all modern day people and things.
They have kept their way of life, just as we should reclaim ours.
However our ideals and views will vary from theirs, we share the same beliefs...our planet, our home...respect it...enjoy it.

I know many of you believe that going without modern association would be just stupid. (hospitals etc)
Srane, it would be. but ONLY use things like these when its ONLY absolutely necessary.

I'll tell you now, that once you go out into the wilderness, you will have withdrawals...for several days.
You will miss foods, you will miss friends, family, other activities that are limited to City life.
You will be afraid of the wilderness, because its a completely new, and hard to understand place.
If you can master wild-life just as you have mastered city-life, then you will be more happy than you have every imagined.

The connection between the world, and you, really does exist. Its a mutual understanding.
I feeling of calm, peace...feeling as if you actually belong to something better than "the man."


Anyways, you really have to plan for EVERYTHING, not just finding a place, because time does fly by. But you seem to have the mindset that you've already planned ahead in your head what is going to go down.


Offline Tonbogiri

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Re: The dry run - lets get going!
« Reply #117 on: January 24, 2011, 03:20:32 pm »
"The man ruined the ozone. He's burnin' down the amazon and he kidnapped Charlene and put her in a chlorine tank!"

heh.

Thankyou Na'Vin, nice to see you're back. Of course - all of the points raised are in the event of us being unable to cope with the wilderness. We must have these systems in place in order to not be shut down by health and safety people - but once we are there, I am hopeful that we will be able to adapt.

We should be an example to the world - an extreme example, but a way of showing that instead of constantly looking ahead, or getting caught up in the rush world we live in, there is no problem and certainly benefits to simply taking a step to the side - and looking back.

So: Find a Location!
     Fundraising ideas!


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Offline Tsleng Keye'ung

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Re: The dry run - lets get going!
« Reply #118 on: February 01, 2011, 09:19:44 pm »
Wait, wait. I thought I was signing up for life in the tribe. Not 16-50 then you get old and have to leave. No, I want to start new.

guest2859

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Re: The dry run - lets get going!
« Reply #119 on: February 01, 2011, 09:42:58 pm »
Wait, wait. I thought I was signing up for life in the tribe. Not 16-50 then you get old and have to leave. No, I want to start new.

You can stay as long as you like, just we'll of course have to require you to get a final Will and Testament in once you join.

 

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