Txe'lan

Started by Puvomun, August 04, 2011, 03:49:02 AM

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Puvomun

Txe'lan tsun livu fpom.
Txe'lan tsun sivi fwa menari ke tsun tsive'a.
Krr a tuteo ke peng tìngay, txe'lanìl tìsraw saryi.

Oeyä txe'lanìl tìsraw si set. Oel 'efu futa tuteo kavuk sìmi oeti.
Oeyä txe'lanìl tìsraw si, talun tuteo pamlltxe aylì'u luke meuia. Luke tìngay.
Krr a lì'fya lam sraw, may' frivìp utralit.

Ngopyu ayvurä.

Blue Elf

#1
Txantsan! Slä oel ke tslam ralit lì'ukìngä amuve:
Txe'lan tsun sivi fwa menari ke tsun tsive'a.
Si ke tsun sivar luke lì'u alahe, fpìl oel futa sweylu txo nga sivung lì'uo fu sivar lì'u alahe. Kxawm:
Txe'lan tsun tsive'a fwa menari ke tsun tsive'a.

srake?

tìsung: "peng" is transitive, "tìsraw si" intransitive, so case marking is not fully correct:

Krr a tuteol ke peng tìngayit, txe'lan tìsraw saryi.
Oeyä txe'lan tìsraw si set. Oel 'efu futa tuteo kavuk sìmi oeru.
Oe lu skxawng skxakep. Slä oe nerume mi.
"Oe tasyätxaw ulte koren za'u oehu" (Limonádový Joe)


Puvomun

Quote from: Blue Elf on August 04, 2011, 04:06:11 AM
Txantsan! Slä oel ke tslam ralit lì'ukìngä amuve:
Txe'lan tsun sivi fwa menari ke tsun tsive'a.
Si ke tsun sivar luke lì'u alahe, fpìl oel futa sweylu txo nga sivung lì'uo fu sivar lì'u alahe. Kxawm:
Txe'lan tsun tsive'a fwa menari ke tsun tsive'a.

srake?

tìsung: "peng" is transitive, "tìsraw si" intransitive, so case marking is not fully correct:

Krr a tuteol ke peng tìngayit, txe'lan tìsraw saryi.
Oeyä txe'lan tìsraw si set. Oel 'efu futa tuteo kavuk sìmi oeru.

What I intended to say here was:
The heart can make that the eyes can not see.
I already suspected that this would be a crooked construction, but I did not find a better form.
Krr a lì'fya lam sraw, may' frivìp utralit.

Ngopyu ayvurä.

Blue Elf

Then:
Txe'lan tsun tsakem sivi a menari ke tsun tsive'a
would be correct.
Oe lu skxawng skxakep. Slä oe nerume mi.
"Oe tasyätxaw ulte koren za'u oehu" (Limonádový Joe)


Puvomun

Quote from: Blue Elf on August 04, 2011, 06:17:03 AM
Then:
Txe'lan tsun tsakem sivi a menari ke tsun tsive'a
would be correct.

Irayo si ngaru, ngeyä srung lu oeyä temrey.
Krr a lì'fya lam sraw, may' frivìp utralit.

Ngopyu ayvurä.

Tirea Aean

,
Quote from: Blue Elf on August 04, 2011, 06:17:03 AM
Then:
Txe'lan tsun tsakem sivi a menari ke tsun tsive'a
would be correct.

seems a tad shaky. you want to attribute that rightmost clause to tsakem not sivi.

Txe'lan tsun [ke tsun menari tsive'a ]a tsakem sivi

Txe'lan tsun tsakem a[ke tsun menari tsive'a] sivi

though this is harder to understand orally or even in print without a bracket... (and afaik, attributions and negation are the only things that come between noun and si)

it still means : The heart can do that action which the eyes cannot see.

and I pretty much agree with the rest of Blue Elf's corrections.

Quote from: Blue Elf on August 04, 2011, 04:06:11 AM
Txantsan! Slä oel ke tslam ralit lì'ukìngä amuve:
Txe'lan tsun sivi fwa menari ke tsun tsive'a.
Si ke tsun sivar luke lì'u alahe, fpìl oel futa sweylu txo nga sivung lì'uo fu sivar lì'u alahe. Kxawm:
Txe'lan tsun tsive'a fwa menari ke tsun tsive'a.

srake?

you would then use futa, not fwa. fwa is an intransitive subject. futa is a transitive object.

Quote
tìsung: "peng" is transitive, "tìsraw si" intransitive, so case marking is not fully correct:

Krr a tuteol ke peng tìngayit, txe'lan tìsraw saryi.
Oeyä txe'lan tìsraw si set. Oel 'efu futa tuteo kavuk sìmi oeru.

agreed.

Sireayä mokri

Quote from: Tirea Aean on August 04, 2011, 08:21:28 AM
and afaik, attributions and negation are the only things that come between noun and si

Negations only, so I'd say tsun txe'lan, ke tsun menari tsive'a a tsakem sivi.
When the mirror speaks, the reflection lies.

Tirea Aean

Quote from: Sireayä mokri on August 04, 2011, 08:28:23 AM
Quote from: Tirea Aean on August 04, 2011, 08:21:28 AM
and afaik, attributions and negation are the only things that come between noun and si

Negations only, so I'd say tsun txe'lan, ke tsun menari tsive'a a tsakem sivi.

hmmm. Oh this is the thing I suggested: left-branching attribution.

tsun txe'lan [ ke tsun menari tsive'a ]a tsakem sivi.

but without the brackets it was hard to understand LOL ;D

Sireayä mokri

I think a comma can do here ;)
When the mirror speaks, the reflection lies.

Puvomun

QuoteThe heart can make that the eyes can not see

Hmm. Perhaps a better way to do this then might be:

Menari ke tsun tsive'a talun txe'lan slu txanatan nìhawng.
Krr a lì'fya lam sraw, may' frivìp utralit.

Ngopyu ayvurä.

Blue Elf

Oeyä eltu tìsraw si... :P
All these corrected versions looks ununderstandable, although I believe they're correct. I must think about them more. Hereat English sentence seems to be quite simple....
Oe lu skxawng skxakep. Slä oe nerume mi.
"Oe tasyätxaw ulte koren za'u oehu" (Limonádový Joe)


Ftxavanga Txe′lan

Aw, fìpamrel tìsraw si oeru! :( Fpìl oel futa nga keftxo nìhawng ke lu, ma Puvomun.

Puvomun

Quote from: Ftxavanga Txe′lan on August 04, 2011, 11:33:35 AM
Aw, fìpamrel tìsraw si oeru! :( Fpìl oel futa nga keftxo nìhawng ke lu, ma Puvomun.

Irayo, Yayayr lu oeyä rey set...
Krr a lì'fya lam sraw, may' frivìp utralit.

Ngopyu ayvurä.

Sireayä mokri

Quote from: Puvomun on August 04, 2011, 11:55:58 AM
Quote from: Ftxavanga Txe′lan on August 04, 2011, 11:33:35 AM
Aw, fìpamrel tìsraw si oeru! :( Fpìl oel futa nga keftxo nìhawng ke lu, ma Puvomun.

Irayo, Yayayr lu oeyä rey set...

Nawma Sa'nok ngaru fyawivìntxu, ma Puvomun.
When the mirror speaks, the reflection lies.

Ftxavanga Txe′lan

Quote from: Sireayä mokri on August 04, 2011, 12:25:40 PMNawma Sa'nok ngaru fyawivìntxu, ma Puvomun.

Fì'u! :( *hug* 'Ivì'awn seykxel, ayoeng ngahu leiu.

Alyara Arati

QuoteThe heart can make that the eyes can not see.

Is there a rule that I don't know about forbidding the use of leyken here?  I would say:
Txe'lan tsun leykiven futa menari ke tsun tsive'a.

Kop *hug*!  Txe'lanur ngeyä livu fpom nìmun ye'rin...
Learn how to see.  Realize that everything connects to everything else.
~ Leonardo da Vinci

Sireayä mokri

Sìltsana säfpìl ;)
When the mirror speaks, the reflection lies.

Ftxavanga Txe′lan


Ekirä

Ma Puvomun, keftxo nì'aw. :( Sìlpey oe tsnì txe'lan ngeyä zoslayu ye'rìn...

Quote from: Alyara Arati on August 04, 2011, 01:50:59 PM
Txe'lan tsun leykiven futa menari ke tsun tsive'a.

Fìpongu aylì'uä lu lor sì ngay.

Ftxavanga Txe′lan

Quote from: Ftxavanga Txe′lan on August 04, 2011, 11:33:35 AM
Aw, fìpamrel tìsraw si oeru! :( Fpìl oel futa nga keftxo nìhawng ke lu, ma Puvomun.

Wiya, lu kexeyey fìtsenge nìngay. :o Ngaytxoa yayayri! Namew piveng san Sìlpey oel futa nga keftxo nìhawng ke lu sìk.