Author Topic: Fwopx a Hufwemì (Dust in the Wind - Kansas)  (Read 1565 times)

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Offline Alìm Tsamsiyu

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Fwopx a Hufwemì (Dust in the Wind - Kansas)
« on: September 07, 2018, 04:11:27 am »
Original song and lyrics:

And my translation:

Oeri menarir tstu si... swawo nì'aw
ulte swaw 'olìp.
Oeri ayunilìl... kä menari-io ulte lu hiyìk
Fwopx a hufwemì
Sa'u nì'aw lu fwopx a hufwemì
tenga tìrol akoak... nì'aw payìva mì
tampay atxewluke
Frakem awngeyä... zup ne kllte
slä awnga sto tsive'a
Fwopx a hufwemì
Nì'aw awnga lu fwopx a hufwemì

Tse, rä'ä hìpey... Eyweveng nì'aw fkeytayok nìt'iluke
Fra'u 'ayìp ulte... nga ke tsun kivanom kea swawti nì'ul
Fwopx a hufwemì
Nì'aw awnga lu fwopx a hufwemì
Fwopx a hufwemì
Fra'u lu fwopx a hufwemì
(Hufwemì...)


I intend to make a recording of this as well, but not until I've let you guys shoot it full of holes first  :P
« Last Edit: September 10, 2018, 11:35:30 pm by Alìm Tsamsiyu »
Oeyä ayswizawri tswayon alìm ulte takuk nìngay.
My arrows fly far and strike true.

Offline Toliman

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Re: Fwopx a Hufwemì (Dust in the Wind - Kansas)
« Reply #1 on: September 07, 2018, 04:32:02 am »
Nice translation of nice song :D


Oey ayunilìl... ftem menarit oeyä, ulte hiyìk lu
here really missing or it's just intention? ???

Fra'u 'asyìp ulte... nga ke tsun kivanom kea swawit nì'ul
Kanom is transitive, isn't it? (if I didn't overlook something...) ???

Offline Alìm Tsamsiyu

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Re: Fwopx a Hufwemì (Dust in the Wind - Kansas)
« Reply #2 on: September 07, 2018, 08:29:31 pm »
Nice translation of nice song :D
Tstunwi! :-[

Quote
here really missing or it's just intention? ???
Intentional due to syllable constraints, decided to invoke Horen 3.2.2.6. for that one:
But, now that you've pointed it out and I'm thinking about it more, it still work to keep the ä in there. I'll leave it as-is for now, but I might add it back into the final version.

Quote
Kanom is transitive, isn't it? (if I didn't overlook something...) ???
'Ä'! Ngaru lu tìyawr. I think I had an intransitive verb there in one iteration and when I swapped it to kanom I neglected case markers. Irayo.
Added -ti
Oeyä ayswizawri tswayon alìm ulte takuk nìngay.
My arrows fly far and strike true.

Offline Toliman

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Re: Fwopx a Hufwemì (Dust in the Wind - Kansas)
« Reply #3 on: September 08, 2018, 08:47:33 am »
Quote
here really missing or it's just intention? ???
Intentional due to syllable constraints, decided to invoke Horen 3.2.2.6. for that one:
But, now that you've pointed it out and I'm thinking about it more, it still work to keep the ä in there. I'll leave it as-is for now, but I might add it back into the final version.
Ah yeah, this rule.
Maybe I would say that there it looks good :)



Offline Blue Elf

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Re: Fwopx a Hufwemì (Dust in the Wind - Kansas)
« Reply #4 on: September 08, 2018, 02:45:16 pm »
Quite good transalation - congratulation!
Omitting final -ä in pronoun genitive case is ok, especially when you need to decrease syllable count in poem/song :)

I'd offer some small improvements and corrections:
Quote
Oeri tstu si... menarir swawo nì'aw - as si-verbs are intransitive, thing being closed must be in dative. -o suffix turns time word to duration; nìswaw is not a word
ulte swaw 'olìp
Oey ayunilìl... ftem menarit oey, ulte hiyìk lu
                kä io menari oeyä - maybe literal translation works better? Ftem is 'pass by something', not 'pass before', so...
Fwopx a hufwemì
Sa'u lu nì'aw fwopx a hufwemì - Fum is not confirmed, so aysa'u > sa'u is safer way to express 'those'
tenga tìrol akoak... nì'aw payìva mì
tampay atxewluke
Frakem awngeyä... zup ne kllte (or latem ne neni - all changes to sand) - meaning is something like All we do is destroyed/changes to dust, but I wanted to avoid repating 'dust' again. Also, with fra- we use singular form, not plural
slä awnga sto tsive'a
Fwopxit a hufwemì - as fwopx is object of tse'a, patientive case is needed
awnga lu nì'aw fwopx a hufwemì - changed word order

set, rä'ä hìpey... Eyweveng nì'aw fkeytayok nìt'iluke
Fra'u fwi neto ulte... nga ke tsun kivanom kea swawti nì'ul - again direct transaltion is probably better - <asy> means intention of the speaker, so speaker intends to cause everything to disappear, what is not case
Fwopx a hufwemì
awnga lu nì'aw fwopx a hufwemì - changed word order
Fwopx a hufwemì
Fra'u lu fwopx a hufwemì
(Hufwemì...)
I hope you'll find my proposals useful.
Oe lu skxawng skxakep. Slä oe nerume mi.
"Oe tasyätxaw ulte koren za'u oehu" (Limonádový Joe)


Offline Alìm Tsamsiyu

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Re: Fwopx a Hufwemì (Dust in the Wind - Kansas)
« Reply #5 on: September 10, 2018, 11:01:41 pm »
Quote
Quite good transalation - congratulation!
Tstunwi! :-[

Quote
menarir swawo nì'aw
Not sure what happened to my dative there - I had it at one point but must have typo'd that one out. Irayo for pointing it out x)
As far as *nìswaw, I took some artistic license on that one for the sake of syllable count. Two syllables too many definitely won't work in that line, so I'd have to reword it somehow in order to make it fit. I'll chew on that one some.

[EDIT] - Went with "Oeri tstu si menarir... swawo nì'aw" - I'll just have to start the verse earlier in the song than he does to fit in the extra couple syllables before the pause.

Quote
kä io menari oeyä
Hmm yeah that could possibly work better. Would also probably be OK to flow the sounds together nicely by wording it as kä menari-io oeyä, think I'll go with that!

[EDIT] - Syllables got in the way on that one, so I reworded this line to: Oeri ayunilìl... kä menari-io ulte hiyìk lu taking advantage of inalienable possession to avoid requiring a second oey(ä)

Quote
Sa'u
Probably right here. Didn't know that fum was not confirmed!

Quote
zup ne kllte (or latem ne neni - all changes to sand)
Hmm, yeah I agree that this one is potentially words rather than meaning on translation, but I felt that "falls to the ground" would be fairly universally understood to be a negative. I'll think about this one some more too, but I'm inclined to keep it.

Quote
Fwopxit
Well, you bring up an interesting point with this one. The dust here isn't actually the object that the previous "see" is referring to, it's rather "All we do falls to the ground but we refuse to see/acknowledge (that fact)"
That being said - is it critically important to define that here? I thought that it could be omitted and understood, but pointing this out makes me think it may be ambiguous. Let me know what you think there.

Quote
Fra'u fwi neto ulte
D'oh, you're right of course about <asy>. Oops!
Not sure about fwi neto though since the line here as I understand it is meant to describe things fading away to nothingness. All achievements, possessions, and even time itself "slips(fades) away" into oblivion.

Quote
awnga lu nì'aw fwopx a hufwemì (x2)
I chose the word order I did to intentionally semi-blend the Nì'aw awnga because of syllable constraints. Even though the syllables are the same either way, and still are distinct when sung, it seems to fit better somehow!

Irayo seiyi nìtxan for your suggestions! it is very helpful as always to have another perspective on these (especially useful coming from a non-native English speaker). Irayo nìmun!
« Last Edit: September 10, 2018, 11:31:58 pm by Alìm Tsamsiyu »
Oeyä ayswizawri tswayon alìm ulte takuk nìngay.
My arrows fly far and strike true.

Offline Blue Elf

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Re: Fwopx a Hufwemì (Dust in the Wind - Kansas)
« Reply #6 on: September 11, 2018, 11:25:35 am »
Quote
Fwopxit
Well, you bring up an interesting point with this one. The dust here isn't actually the object that the previous "see" is referring to, it's rather "All we do falls to the ground but we refuse to see/acknowledge (that fact)"
That being said - is it critically important to define that here? I thought that it could be omitted and understood, but pointing this out makes me think it may be ambiguous. Let me know what you think there.
Looking back to original text, it is really debatable, whether third line is object of the see in second line or whethet there's unspoken object (marked green)
Quote
All we do crumbles to the ground
Though we refuse to see {that}
Dust in the wind
All we are is dust in the wind
So I'd say - whatever version you'll choose, you have arguments to defend your selection :). Simply choose what fits better into melody or is easier to pronounce. You can't make mistake  ;D.
Oe lu skxawng skxakep. Slä oe nerume mi.
"Oe tasyätxaw ulte koren za'u oehu" (Limonádový Joe)


Offline Alìm Tsamsiyu

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Re: Fwopx a Hufwemì (Dust in the Wind - Kansas)
« Reply #7 on: September 11, 2018, 03:26:52 pm »
Hrh txantsan :)

Irayo nìmun ma Blue Elf
Oeyä ayswizawri tswayon alìm ulte takuk nìngay.
My arrows fly far and strike true.

Offline Plumps

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Re: Fwopx a Hufwemì (Dust in the Wind - Kansas)
« Reply #8 on: September 12, 2018, 01:05:35 am »
Ma Alìm,

what a coincident  :D I tried to translate that song a few months ago as well. If it helps you I can dig out my version.

You seem to have done a pretty good job though ;D

Offline Alìm Tsamsiyu

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Re: Fwopx a Hufwemì (Dust in the Wind - Kansas)
« Reply #9 on: September 13, 2018, 09:05:59 am »
Hah! You know what they say, great minds think alike! Hrh.

Certainly wouldn't turn down a chance to see your version also!
Oeyä ayswizawri tswayon alìm ulte takuk nìngay.
My arrows fly far and strike true.

Offline Plumps

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Re: Fwopx a Hufwemì (Dust in the Wind - Kansas)
« Reply #10 on: September 15, 2018, 04:16:29 pm »
Hmmm, I must have done that when we didn’t have a word for dust yet … I chose ìlva back then and I think I was never really satisfied with it because I couldn’t get it to a singable version.

oeri menarir tstu si / menari lu tstu
swaw a’aw nì’aw
ulte holum tsaswaw
ayunil nìwotx
ftem eo menari oey fa tìnomum
ìlva a mì hufwe
sa’u lu ìlva a mì hufwe

spuwin sì teng a way / spuwina way ateng
payìva zup nemfa
luke txew a txampay
frakem a kem si awnga
zup ne kllte hufwa
awnga stero tsive’a
ìlva a mì hufwe
awnga lu ìlva a mì hufwe

ftang vivar
nìtut ke’u ke ’ì’awn
kllte sì tawmungwrr
tsaw ftem nìwin
fra’uri ke kayanom
ngal lahea swawit

ìlva a mì hufwe
awnga lu ìlva a mì hufwe
fra’u lu ìlva a mì hufwe
ìlva a mì hufwe


spuwin is also wrong by now, I think. Should be lal.
I liked the sound of ìlva a mì hufwe, though. Ending in hufwe is better for singing than …, I think.  :-\

 

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