Author Topic: Pam Tìfnuyä (The Sound of Silence - nìNa'vi)  (Read 1014 times)

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Offline Alìm Tsamsiyu

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Pam Tìfnuyä (The Sound of Silence - nìNa'vi)
« on: March 30, 2018, 10:48:16 am »
Kaltxì ma oeyä smuk!

Ever since Pamìrìk did his Daily Sentence Challenge, I've had this translated and been intending to do a recording of it, so last night I finally went ahead and did it!

Hope you all enjoy!

(Note: Eana Unil has pointed out to me that it should, in fact, be Tìfnuä instead of Tìfnuyä, but at this point it's not changing so tsa'uhu rivey  :P )

Oeyä ayswizawri tswayon alìm ulte takuk nìngay.
My arrows fly far and strike true.

Offline Toliman

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Re: Pam Tìfnuyä (The Sound of Silence - nìNa'vi)
« Reply #1 on: March 30, 2018, 10:59:40 am »
Nice :D

Sunu oeru :) Sìltsana tìrol sì sìltsana tìralpeng!

Offline Alìm Tsamsiyu

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Re: Pam Tìfnuyä (The Sound of Silence - nìNa'vi)
« Reply #2 on: March 30, 2018, 11:42:15 am »
 :-[
Tstunwi!
Oeyä ayswizawri tswayon alìm ulte takuk nìngay.
My arrows fly far and strike true.

Offline Plumps

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Re: Pam Tìfnuyä (The Sound of Silence - nìNa'vi)
« Reply #3 on: March 31, 2018, 08:08:03 am »
Eltur tìtxen si :)

I thought about that as well but never attempted it because I thought it was not possible with our existing vocabulary ;)

Sure there are minor mistakes in it but well done, ma Alìm Tsamsiyu! :)

Offline Blue Elf

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Re: Pam Tìfnuyä (The Sound of Silence - nìNa'vi)
« Reply #4 on: March 31, 2018, 12:18:44 pm »
Oeri tsuksìm zolup ne kllte.... Fìtìrol lam yo' nì'aw.
Well, I think I also was thinking how to translate this long time ago, but real steps were not taken - so applause for you.  It sounds great.

I'd like to analyze your translation - can you post Na'vi text, so I don't have to rewrite it from the video?
Oe lu skxawng skxakep. Slä oe nerume mi.
"Oe tasyätxaw ulte koren za'u oehu" (Limonádový Joe)


Offline Alyara Arati

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Re: Pam Tìfnuyä (The Sound of Silence - nìNa'vi)
« Reply #5 on: April 01, 2018, 11:43:48 pm »
Wow!  I'm so pleased that more people are trying this again these days!!  Blessings and congratulations!!
Learn how to see.  Realize that everything connects to everything else.
~ Leonardo da Vinci

Offline Alìm Tsamsiyu

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Re: Pam Tìfnuyä (The Sound of Silence - nìNa'vi)
« Reply #6 on: April 02, 2018, 08:23:47 am »
Here is the text, ma Blue Elf -

I took a couple artistic liberties that I figured would be understood, even if not 100% correct, in the interest of keeping syllable counts close to the original (i.e.: Tsasänrr -> Tsänrr)

Only part that I'm not really satisfied with translation wise is the very last line... for some reason I couldn't think of a better way to word that. :S

« Last Edit: April 02, 2018, 08:48:14 am by Alìm Tsamsiyu »
Oeyä ayswizawri tswayon alìm ulte takuk nìngay.
My arrows fly far and strike true.

Offline Plumps

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Re: Pam Tìfnuyä (The Sound of Silence - nìNa'vi)
« Reply #7 on: April 03, 2018, 06:23:40 am »
Interesting :)

I hope I won’t take anything away from Blue Elf ;)

I took a couple artistic liberties that I figured would be understood, even if not 100% correct, in the interest of keeping syllable counts close to the original (i.e.: Tsasänrr -> Tsänrr)

For future projects, it is totally fine to shorten - if it doesn’t violate phonetic rules, i.e. sänrr colloquially is pronounced snrr. So, tsasänrr could be pronounced tsasnrr

Kaltxì ma tìvawm, oey 'eylan
perängkxängo ngahu nìmun
talun äiel a nìwan lerok
yolem ayrina'it mì oeyä 'ok

Ulte äie
A yalmem mì oey ronsem
Mi 'ì’awn
Nemfa Pam… Tìfnuyä => ’ì’awn + nemfa doesn’t sound right to me; nemfa indicates a movement (it comes from ne mìfa), you can’t “remain into”, can you?

Mì oeyä ayunil avawm
Nì’awtu oe tìran
Äo sänrr fya’oyä oe => you said it already, the Genitive after o, u, ll, rr and consonants is just -ä
Mìn neto ftu paynga’a hufwe

Tsakrra stxonga atanìl => the a is not necessary here, tsakrr is just “then”.
Tsolängukx oeyä menarit
Ulte mun’i txonit
Ulte ‘ampi Pamit…. Tìfnuyä

Talun tsatan oel tsole’a
Zazama sutet, kxawm nì’ul
Sute perlltxe slä ke pängkxo => I’d have translated that with sute perlltxe luke fwa pängkxo
Sute sterawm slä ke tìng mikyun => sute stawm luke fwa tìng mikyun. to keep with the rhythm.

Sutel ngop sìrolit
A kea aymokri ke tìng ulte => that subordinate clause is a bit confusing, who gives what to whom? I’d say a kawkrr aymokril ke sar “(songs) that voices never used”
Kawtul mi
Ke kxakx Pamit… Tìfnuyä => kxakx is intransitive, I’d use mäkxu or even hultstxem

Poltxe san ma ayskxawngìl (ayngal) ke omum => the vocative is in a way already a case, so no L, T etc. allowed ;) – for rhyhtms sake, you can pronounce ma ayskxawng like mayskxawng, the two a’s just merge in speech, same as with sì ay… which becomes say… in fast speech.
F(u)ta tìfnu säspxinna tsawl slu. => if an attached adposition collides with the same consonant they are doubled: kilvanne, Mo’atta etc. we don’t know what ramifications ral + luke has but it’s avoidable :P
Oeti yune fte kivar (ay)ngaru => it’s talking about fools, right? so, plural you.
Oeti lok fte srung sivi (ay)ngaru

Slä oey aylì’u…
Na fayìva atìfnunga’ zolup
Sì ‘ìp mì Ayramunong… Tìfnuyä => sì slu ngam mì ayramunong … tìfnuä

Fol tolìng leioaet
Stxonga sänrrur angawnop
Tsasänrrìl tolìng säpenghrrit => I think one could also use sävll here for sign.
Ulte ngolop aylì'uti

Tsas(ä)nrr poleng san *aysrese’ayuä aylì’ul mì na’rìngit
Sì helkut tok
Ulte lu tsawnìsyì Pammì… Tìfnuyä => that construct is actually wrong, “whispered” is tsolìsyì, ‹awn› can only be used as an attributive adjective, so always with -a-, pawnlltxea aylì’u “spoken words”; it gets more complicated because tsìsyì is intransitive, so can’t be used with ‹awn›, technically, it should be ulte tsat (= sänrrit) tseykolìsyì fkol “one made the light whisper” but I realise that’s to wordy for a song lyric. ;)

A big kudos to you! Respect for the effort and creative solutions you found!

Offline Blue Elf

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Re: Pam Tìfnuyä (The Sound of Silence - nìNa'vi)
« Reply #8 on: April 06, 2018, 03:46:31 pm »
Thank you for providing your text.
It's quite hard to add something when Plumps step in the scene  ;D So I just show a few small corrections and maybe improvements:
Kaltxì ma tìvawm, oey 'eylan
perängkxängo ngahu nìmun
talun äiel a nìwan lerok
yolem ayrina'it mì oeyä 'ok

Ulte äie
A yalmem mì oey ronsem
Mi 'ì’awn
Nemfamìfa  Pam… Tìfnuyä // -yä is used after a, e, i, ì. In other cases it's only -ä (just repeating to remember :))

Mì oeyä ayunil avawm
Nì’awtu oe tìran
Äo sänrr fya’oyä oe  // as above. For "lamp" you can use tsmisnrr
Mìn neto ftu paynga’a hufwe

Tsakrra stxonga atanìl
Tsolängukx oeyä menarit
Ulte mun’i txonit
Ulte ‘ampi Pamit…. Tìfnuyä

Talun tsatan oel tsole’a
Zazama sutet, kxawm nì’ul
Sute perlltxe slä ke pängkxo  // as Plumps said, but IMHO your version is ok
Sute sterawm slä ke tìng mikyun

Sutel ngop sìrolit
A kea aymokri ke tìng ulte // to be fixed according Plumps
Kawtul mi
Ke kxakx Pamit… Tìfnuyä  // use kxeykakx or ska'a - both are transitive

Poltxe san ma ayskxawngìl ke omum
F(u)ta tìfnu säspxina tsawl slu.
Oeti yune fte kivar ngaru
Oeti lok fte srung sivi ngaru

Slä oey aylì’u…
Na fayìva atìfnunga’ zolup
Sì ‘ìp mì Ayramunong… Tìfnuyä  // Plumps proposes better and exact translation - your version however is good. Select by length, what fits better

Fol tolìng leioaet  // as we have received word for "pray", this part possibly could be improved (no proposal yet...)
Stxonga sänrru angawnop
Tsasänrrìl tolìng säpenghrrit
Ulte ngolop aylì'uti

Tsänrr poleng san *aysrese’ayuä aylì’ul mì na'rìngit
Sì helkut tok
Ulte lu tsawnìsyì Pamì… Tìfnuyä
Last part apparently needs more thinking to improve it, so maybe I'll give it some time (if time permits). Generally this song looks like very good work of yours and even you sung it - so big thank for your effort. I really enjoy every good translation into Na'vi and this one is really good. I'm looking forward to your next work - I hope this one is not your last.
« Last Edit: April 06, 2018, 03:50:58 pm by Blue Elf »
Oe lu skxawng skxakep. Slä oe nerume mi.
"Oe tasyätxaw ulte koren za'u oehu" (Limonádový Joe)


Offline Alyara Arati

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Re: Pam Tìfnuyä (The Sound of Silence - nìNa'vi)
« Reply #9 on: April 09, 2018, 06:28:24 pm »
You really inspired me to try my own version of this song!  I didn't copy, I promise.   ;)
These lyrics may not be as faithful a translation, but they should fit the same meter as the original song, with the same emphasis on the syllables... except for *kawtul (I did my best, but...)   :P
So, in case anyone's interested, here's what I've got   :)  :

Learn how to see.  Realize that everything connects to everything else.
~ Leonardo da Vinci

Offline Blue Elf

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Re: Pam Tìfnuyä (The Sound of Silence - nìNa'vi)
« Reply #10 on: April 14, 2018, 04:07:34 pm »
Well, very creative translation. I really don't know, which one looks better - both have it's strong lines, so maybe combine best parts together? :)
I'd make these small changes / corrections:

ma tìvawm ‘eylan sì, kxì
ngahu nìmun pängkxo oe
talun äiel awan txolìng // wan is verb and -a- doesn't change it to adjective, so maybe awawnan? Or have you intended äiel a wan ...?
ayrina’it tengkrr hahaw
ulte ‘urìl a fkol yem pumit nemfa // not clear, where pum refers to, I expect äie, isn't it?
eltu oey
mi tok tìfnuä pamit

ayunilmì tìran fìfya:
syepa sengfa frakrr sop // as above, syep is verb, you most probably mean snep
oeri ‘etnaw nì’awtu mìn
sänrrne ulte tìwewwä
krra tsukx atanìl menariti oey a kop
mu’ni txonit
sì wo tìfnuä pamit

ulte tsakrr oel tsole’a
zazama sutet, kxawm nì’ul
sute a lawk luke fwa plltxe // or ..lawk ulte (maybe sì is acceptable here) ke plltxe
sute a stawm luke fwa yune  // or ..stawm ulte (maybe sì) ke yune
sute hu sìrol a mokri txopu si
tafral kawtul
(ke) mäkxu tìfnuä pamit // ke should be there because of multiple negation, but if it helps to omit it, then ok

oel poleng san ma ayskxawng
na säspxin ‘ängul tìfnu  // no idea what ‘ängul mean, I'd propose virä
yune oet fte kivar ayngat
fyep tsyokxit fte tivìng zekwät
slä zup sompìvana faylì’u
ulte slu ayngam ramungongmì

ulte sute olaho
fpi keswoka ‘ut (a fol) txula // hard to understand without green part...
alu aungia hrrapä
a penghrr set fayluta: // you mean penghrr, right? but it is intransitive. Maybe ...penghrr set faylì'ufa > faylufa
aylì’ur aysrese’ayuä fkol pamrel si slärä kemyosìn // si-verbs are intransitive, so no -l
sì helkuä ropx
kop tsìsyì a tìfnuä pammì
Oe lu skxawng skxakep. Slä oe nerume mi.
"Oe tasyätxaw ulte koren za'u oehu" (Limonádový Joe)


Offline Plumps

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Re: Pam Tìfnuyä (The Sound of Silence - nìNa'vi)
« Reply #11 on: April 15, 2018, 04:45:10 am »
Ma Alyara,

txantsana tìkangkem nìtxan!


I’m of the opinion that no one translation is the end of all attempts. There are multiple translations of famous books over the years. Why should that not be the case for Na’vi once we have more words? (I’m curious to see what the new wave of people will bring to ‘old’ translation attempts like “Color of the wind” etc. :P )





oel poleng san ma ayskxawng
na säspxin ‘ängul tìfnu  // no idea what ‘ängul mean, I'd propose virä
yune oet fte kivar ayngat
fyep tsyokxit fte tivìng zekwät
slä zup sompìvana faylì’u
ulte slu ayngam ramungongmì



’ängul < ’‹äng›ul < ’ul ;)

Offline Blue Elf

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Re: Pam Tìfnuyä (The Sound of Silence - nìNa'vi)
« Reply #12 on: April 15, 2018, 10:28:13 am »
’ängul < ’‹äng›ul < ’ul ;)
Tsahey, ke sunu oer fayhemlì'uvi a lu kawng, sleyku fkoru yayayrit sì ketìtslamit !!! Fpolìl oel futa lìfy'ati leNa'vi oel stum fnan, slä wätx, wätx, wätx nì'aw  :'( :'( :'(
Oe lu skxawng skxakep. Slä oe nerume mi.
"Oe tasyätxaw ulte koren za'u oehu" (Limonádový Joe)


Offline Alyara Arati

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Re: Pam Tìfnuyä (The Sound of Silence - nìNa'vi)
« Reply #13 on: April 15, 2018, 12:40:05 pm »
Nga wätx srak, ma Elf?  Kehe, oe wätx!  My Na'vi is so rusty...  :'(  And I'm never sure what grammar... ahem... shortcuts I can take in the name of artistic license, and which are going too far, but posting helps me judge that.  So anyway, I fixed a few things; this should be better, I hope.  :)

« Last Edit: April 23, 2018, 03:58:24 pm by Alyara Arati »
Learn how to see.  Realize that everything connects to everything else.
~ Leonardo da Vinci

Offline Blue Elf

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Re: Pam Tìfnuyä (The Sound of Silence - nìNa'vi)
« Reply #14 on: April 21, 2018, 02:09:59 pm »
Only two comments:
Quote
talun äiel a wan txolìng
ayrina’it
tengkrr hahaw...
äiel in first version was correct, as it is subject of txìng, which is transitive (that's why ayrina' takes -it). With ..a wan I gave not fully correct proposal, it should be ... a wäpan (vision, which hides itself, left seeds while (I was) sleeping...)
Oe lu skxawng skxakep. Slä oe nerume mi.
"Oe tasyätxaw ulte koren za'u oehu" (Limonádový Joe)


Offline Alyara Arati

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Re: Pam Tìfnuyä (The Sound of Silence - nìNa'vi)
« Reply #15 on: April 23, 2018, 04:04:19 pm »
Fixed and re-re-fixed!  I'm now officially finished, whether there are imperfections or not.  Yes, I took some more artistic license and personified the vision to some extent.  I'm okay with that.  Have a lovely day.
Learn how to see.  Realize that everything connects to everything else.
~ Leonardo da Vinci

Offline Alìm Tsamsiyu

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Re: Pam Tìfnuyä (The Sound of Silence - nìNa'vi)
« Reply #16 on: August 23, 2018, 01:39:50 am »
Wou! Long time since I visited the forums (hrh, ngaytxoa but I prefer Discord far more)

Anyways, just now getting to reading through everything you guys have said. Irayo seiyi nìtxan for your corrections. And ma Alyara I really like your version as well.

Maybe I'll get around to re-recording with some corrections and (with your permission if I ever get to it!) some of your lines instead :)
Oeyä ayswizawri tswayon alìm ulte takuk nìngay.
My arrows fly far and strike true.

Offline Alyara Arati

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Re: Pam Tìfnuyä (The Sound of Silence - nìNa'vi)
« Reply #17 on: August 23, 2018, 03:06:14 am »
Sure, go for it!  :)
Learn how to see.  Realize that everything connects to everything else.
~ Leonardo da Vinci

Offline Toliman

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Re: Pam Tìfnuyä (The Sound of Silence - nìNa'vi)
« Reply #18 on: August 23, 2018, 05:10:28 am »
Maybe I'll get around to re-recording with some corrections and (with your permission if I ever get to it!) some of your lines instead :)
If you can, do it :) Your first video was nice!

Offline Blue Elf

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Re: Pam Tìfnuyä (The Sound of Silence - nìNa'vi)
« Reply #19 on: August 24, 2018, 01:45:33 am »
Really good idea - I support it. BTW - meantime we've got new bunch of words and 'to pray' is among them, so maybe there's place for one more improvement?
Oe lu skxawng skxakep. Slä oe nerume mi.
"Oe tasyätxaw ulte koren za'u oehu" (Limonádový Joe)


 

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