Author Topic: Easy Guide to Na'vi Prefixes, Infixes, and Suffixes II  (Read 15525 times)

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Offline `Eylan Ayfalulukanä

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Re: Easy Guide to Na'vi Prefixes, Infixes, and Suffixes II
« Reply #20 on: February 16, 2012, 03:43:46 pm »
On your definition of the participle infix <awn>, you have 'form' spelled 'forw'.

Otherwise, Txantsan for a nice, concise explanation that I will adapt and use for teaching. There were even a new suffix there I was not aware of: -fteyk.

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« Last Edit: February 16, 2012, 03:45:32 pm by `Eylan Ayfalulukanä »

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Offline Tirea Aean

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Re: Easy Guide to Na'vi Prefixes, Infixes, and Suffixes II
« Reply #21 on: February 16, 2012, 05:07:01 pm »

On your definition of the participle infix <awn>, you have 'form' spelled 'forw'.

Otherwise, Txantsan for a nice, concise explanation that I will adapt and use for teaching. There were even a new suffix there I was not aware of: -fteyk.

Karma to you, ma oeyä 'eylan!

'ä'! fixed.

also, it's -fkeyk not *-fteyk. remember ya-fkeyk, "state of the air"==weather

Karmari irayo :)
« Last Edit: February 16, 2012, 05:09:24 pm by Tirea Aean »

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Offline 'Oma Tirea

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Re: Easy Guide to Na'vi Prefixes, Infixes, and Suffixes II
« Reply #22 on: February 16, 2012, 08:48:03 pm »
fìme+, fìpxe+, tsame+, and tsapxe+, although consisting of 2 prefixes, technically aren't confirmed.  One day they may be fme+, fpxe+, tsme+ and tspxe+.

-it can't be used after plain vowels.  This should be noted.
-ru doesn't go after consonants (canon example where it does?).
-y only occurs for pronouns.
Also note that -ri comes after vowels, and -ìri comes after consonants.

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Offline `Eylan Ayfalulukanä

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Re: Easy Guide to Na'vi Prefixes, Infixes, and Suffixes II
« Reply #23 on: February 16, 2012, 10:16:12 pm »
fìme+, fìpxe+, tsame+, and tsapxe+, although consisting of 2 prefixes, technically aren't confirmed.  One day they may be fme+, fpxe+, tsme+ and tspxe+.

And these prefix combos shouldn't be listed at all, because their components are already listed. Section 3.3 of Wm Annis's reference grammar shows that these prefixes can be stacked like this is various configurations to mean various things.

Sorry about misspelling -fkeyk!

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Offline Tirea Aean

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Re: Easy Guide to Na'vi Prefixes, Infixes, and Suffixes II
« Reply #24 on: February 17, 2012, 12:29:14 am »
fìme+, fìpxe+, tsame+, and tsapxe+, although consisting of 2 prefixes, technically aren't confirmed.  One day they may be fme+, fpxe+, tsme+ and tspxe+.

-it can't be used after plain vowels.  This should be noted.
-ru doesn't go after consonants (canon example where it does?).
-y only occurs for pronouns.
Also note that -ri comes after vowels, and -ìri comes after consonants.



And so it becomes more complicated. I'll allow some discussion time before I add these.

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Offline Blue Elf

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Re: Easy Guide to Na'vi Prefixes, Infixes, and Suffixes II
« Reply #25 on: February 17, 2012, 01:22:05 am »
fìme+, fìpxe+, tsame+, and tsapxe+, although consisting of 2 prefixes, technically aren't confirmed.  One day they may be fme+, fpxe+, tsme+ and tspxe+.

-it can't be used after plain vowels.  This should be noted.
-ru doesn't go after consonants (canon example where it does?).
-y only occurs for pronouns.
Also note that -ri comes after vowels, and -ìri comes after consonants.



And so it becomes more complicated. I'll allow some discussion time before I add these.
See horen leNa'vi, 3.1.1. All notes about noun case endings are correct.
About -y for pronouns is 7.3.3.2 and 3.2.2.6
So only thing requiring discussion is fìme+, fìpxe+, tsame+, and tsapxe+. I haven't found them in any official document (if my search was correct), but according 3.3.7 they should be correct and usable. You can list them with with some question mark or in parenthesis.
Oe lu skxawng skxakep. Slä oe nerume mi.
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Offline Carborundum

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Re: Easy Guide to Na'vi Prefixes, Infixes, and Suffixes II
« Reply #26 on: February 18, 2012, 08:37:24 am »
-am, -ay: how productive are these?
Wasnt sure of productivity of -am and -ay so left them out for now.

Na'viteri 2011-04-05:
Quote
Just like trr itself, these words take fì-, -am, and -ay with the obvious meanings
The phrasing "with the obvious meanings" strongly suggest that -ay and -am are productive on time nouns.
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Offline `Eylan Ayfalulukanä

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Re: Easy Guide to Na'vi Prefixes, Infixes, and Suffixes II
« Reply #27 on: February 18, 2012, 01:18:26 pm »
So only thing requiring discussion is fìme+, fìpxe+, tsame+, and tsapxe+. I haven't found them in any official document (if my search was correct), but according 3.3.7 they should be correct and usable. You can list them with with some question mark or in parenthesis.

There is no question these are useable. In fact, according to 3.3.7, you could have an animal like pemefne-  ::)
But since these can be used like building blocks, and listing every single one of these 'prenoun combinations' would add numerous additions to the prefix list, I don't think they should be added. What might work better is to make a note in the dictionary showing how prenoun stacking works, a la 3.3.7.

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Offline Tirea Aean

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Re: Easy Guide to Na'vi Prefixes, Infixes, and Suffixes II
« Reply #28 on: February 18, 2012, 01:19:28 pm »
I'll clean up OP.

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Offline Blue Elf

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Re: Easy Guide to Na'vi Prefixes, Infixes, and Suffixes II
« Reply #29 on: February 18, 2012, 01:48:39 pm »
One more correction: case endings are used not only with nouns, but also with pronouns (oel, ngati etc.)
Oe lu skxawng skxakep. Slä oe nerume mi.
"Oe tasyätxaw ulte koren za'u oehu" (Limonádový Joe)


Offline Tirea Aean

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Re: Easy Guide to Na'vi Prefixes, Infixes, and Suffixes II
« Reply #30 on: February 18, 2012, 01:55:14 pm »
Wiya it never ends.

Pronouns ARE nouns... kefyak? Isnt Pronoun a subclass of Noun?

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Offline Blue Elf

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Re: Easy Guide to Na'vi Prefixes, Infixes, and Suffixes II
« Reply #31 on: February 18, 2012, 02:00:11 pm »
Quote
Wiya it never ends.
Work is never done :)

Never heard something like this, but I'm not linguist. But I expect they are different word classes. If not, why would they have different names?
Oe lu skxawng skxakep. Slä oe nerume mi.
"Oe tasyätxaw ulte koren za'u oehu" (Limonádový Joe)


Offline Tirea Aean

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Re: Easy Guide to Na'vi Prefixes, Infixes, and Suffixes II
« Reply #32 on: February 18, 2012, 02:12:24 pm »
Never heard something like this, but I'm not linguist. But I expect they are different word classes. If not, why would they have different names?

Because a pronoun is like a variable which contains a noun or noun phrase.

Pronoun nga = new Noun(new Tute("Blue Elf"));

I think of things in terms of code these days HrH

Quote from: dictionary.com
any member of a small class of words found in many languages that are
used as replacements or substitutes for nouns and noun phrases, and that
have very general reference, as I, you, he, this, who, what.  Pronouns are
sometimes formally distinguished from nouns, as in English by the
existence of special objective forms, as him  for he  or me  for I,  and by
nonoccurrence with an article or adjective.
« Last Edit: February 18, 2012, 02:15:23 pm by Tirea Aean »

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Offline Blue Elf

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Re: Easy Guide to Na'vi Prefixes, Infixes, and Suffixes II
« Reply #33 on: February 18, 2012, 03:28:31 pm »
Never heard something like this, but I'm not linguist. But I expect they are different word classes. If not, why would they have different names?

Because a pronoun is like a variable which contains a noun or noun phrase.

Pronoun nga = new Noun(new Tute("Blue Elf"));
Maybe good question for wm.annis? But

Quote from: Horen leNa'vi
3.2.2. The Basic Pronouns. The pronouns take the same case endings as nouns.
he distinguished them.
Oe lu skxawng skxakep. Slä oe nerume mi.
"Oe tasyätxaw ulte koren za'u oehu" (Limonádový Joe)


Offline Tirea Aean

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Re: Easy Guide to Na'vi Prefixes, Infixes, and Suffixes II
« Reply #34 on: February 18, 2012, 03:31:24 pm »
Oh what the heck, I'll add to OP for clarity then.
Please oh God let me be done editing OP...hrh

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Offline `Eylan Ayfalulukanä

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Re: Easy Guide to Na'vi Prefixes, Infixes, and Suffixes II
« Reply #35 on: February 18, 2012, 08:51:16 pm »
Wm Annis separated out the pronouns because they are an important class of nouns that have numerous forms and functions. But pronouns are fully nouns in every respect. They are just another class of nouns, two others being common nouns and proper nouns.

Prenouns are simply prefixes for nouns. They are not words in and of themselves.

I can now see TA writing the prenoun explanation in pseudocode....  :P

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Offline Neyn'ite Te Tsahìk Txeptsyìp'ite

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Re: Easy Guide to Na'vi Prefixes, Infixes, and Suffixes II
« Reply #36 on: February 18, 2012, 08:57:30 pm »
txantsan, ma Tirea! irayo ngaru si fìtxan fpi fì'u! it is gonna take a LOT of long study sessions to memorize all this!! :o :-X

one question. I hear people use 'seiyi' after 'irayo' or 'lrrtok' or any other word- I understand the 'ei', but where does the 'y' come from?
« Last Edit: February 18, 2012, 08:59:53 pm by Neyn'ite Te Tsahìk Txeptsyìp'ite »
old gallery link?id=2025[/img]


oel ayngati kameie, ma aysmukan sì aysmuke, Eywa ayngahu.
oeyä tsmukan, ma Nick, oeru ngaytxoa livu. nìmwey tsurokx. nga yawne lu oer.

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Re: Easy Guide to Na'vi Prefixes, Infixes, and Suffixes II
« Reply #37 on: February 18, 2012, 09:21:30 pm »
one question. I hear people use 'seiyi' after 'irayo' or 'lrrtok' or any other word- I understand the 'ei', but where does the 'y' come from?

The infix is ‹ei›, which in si would result in *seii.  Since the double /i/ is illegal, a euphonic epenthesis ("placed in/upon") is used, the /y/.
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Offline Neyn'ite Te Tsahìk Txeptsyìp'ite

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Re: Easy Guide to Na'vi Prefixes, Infixes, and Suffixes II
« Reply #38 on: February 19, 2012, 01:16:09 am »
irayo :]

also, when/when not are they used? by that I mean are certain -fixes used all the time, some of the time? as in, if I want to say 'untouchable', can I say 'kea tsun 'ampi' (forgive any mistakes, I still suck at Na'vi :P ) or do I use 'ketsampiuk'? basically, must infixes/suffixes/prefixes must always be used?
old gallery link?id=2025[/img]


oel ayngati kameie, ma aysmukan sì aysmuke, Eywa ayngahu.
oeyä tsmukan, ma Nick, oeru ngaytxoa livu. nìmwey tsurokx. nga yawne lu oer.

Offline Blue Elf

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Re: Easy Guide to Na'vi Prefixes, Infixes, and Suffixes II
« Reply #39 on: February 19, 2012, 02:02:41 pm »
irayo :]

also, when/when not are they used? by that I mean are certain -fixes used all the time, some of the time? as in, if I want to say 'untouchable', can I say 'kea tsun 'ampi' (forgive any mistakes, I still suck at Na'vi :P ) or do I use 'ketsampiuk'? basically, must infixes/suffixes/prefixes must always be used?
I'd say it is just ketsuk'ampi. Tsuk-/ketsuk- is prefix for verbs, which express ability/inability to receive action of the verb. So 'ampi = to touch, ketsuk'ampi = untouchable.
Whether you must to use prefix/infix/suffix or not depends on grammar. You must know rules how to use them and when. Na'vi in a nutshell can be good starting point.
Oe lu skxawng skxakep. Slä oe nerume mi.
"Oe tasyätxaw ulte koren za'u oehu" (Limonádový Joe)


 

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