Female suffix

[Plumps]

Hey everyone,

first of all, I'm a complete beginner - to the forum as well as to the language. So, I'm not quite sure whether this thread is in the right place here.

I'm just wondering about the female suffix that is given in every compendium as "-é" - I'm confused because I thought the only accent that Na'vi knows is "ì"
I know that there are examples of gender-izing smuk to *smúkan (male) and *smuké (female).

I'm wondering whether giving these accents pronunciation status might lead to confusion. I'm drawing this out of Frommer's own description from Some Highlights of Na'vi

Word stress in Na'vi is unpredictable and distinctive. Stress must thus be specified for each word. (In learning materials only*, the stressed syllable in a word is underlined.)

E.g. tute 'person', tute 'female person'

*my emphasis

I know that it can lead to confusion if you read tute and would only know from pronunciation (other than context) whether it's a person or a female person but then again, in English you have the same with "read", "desert" etc.

What do you think?

[Taronyu]

Sure this is confusing. What I don't understand is what you mean by "every compendium." to my knowledge, the use of é only happens on Wikipedia. The underline is used in the Na'vi vocabulary we have (and mine), and in the Pocket Guide, the normal IPA ' is used. Do you know of other places?

It is confusing, I agree, but perhaps it's better than not marking it at all...

[Plumps]

Sure this is confusing. What I don't understand is what you mean by "every compendium." to my knowledge, the use of é only happens on Wikipedia. The underline is used in the Na'vi vocabulary we have (and mine), and in the Pocket Guide, the normal IPA ' is used. Do you know of other places?

It is confusing, I agree, but perhaps it's better than not marking it at all...

I meant the .jpg-files in various languages that are for downloading from the main download site.
In the Pocket Guide it only happens in the explanations (no underlining).
But you're probably right - better marked than not marked at all   

Now I noticed another thing ... in the vocabulary section in the Pocket Guide tutean and tutee is given for male and female person respectively. Would you understand the 'rules' as such? I would have thought tute = (any/male) person, tute = (female) person (no other -e necessary)

[Taronyu]

Ah, yes, that is used in the Compendiums. Hmm.

I don't know how I feel about this. I am against using the é accent, on any vowel, as it can't be used along with the ì accent or the ä. I wonder how kllpxìtlu would be transcribed, for instance. I'll see what Mokriya says.

As for the tute issue - well spotted! That's a new phonological rule no one else has noticed, as far as I am aware. I'm, going to make a note of that. According to Frommer's own blog post, it should be tute. Clearly there is some vowel deletion going on here.

[Plumps]

[...] I am against using the é accent, on any vowel, as it can't be used along with the ì accent or the ä. [...]

Yep, same here ...

Oh, I can see it clearly right now learners of Na'vi will fight for the presumably right spelling and use of certain grammatical features until they get ... well, blue in the face
... or Frommer finally decides to publish the official language learners' guide *keep those fingers crossed*

[omängum fra'uti]

People do the é merely to show that that is the stressed syllable.  It's important in cases like tute...  TUte - person.  tuTE - female person.  It's not actually a different letter than e.  It was a little confusing to me as well the first time I saw someone asking about it.

I don't believe -an gets the same stress though, but I could be wrong.

[Plumps]

People do the é merely to show that that is the stressed syllable.  It's important in cases like tute...  TUte - person.  tuTE - female person.  It's not actually a different letter than e.  It was a little confusing to me as well the first time I saw someone asking about it.

I don't believe -an gets the same stress though, but I could be wrong.

I know what you mean and I know how it's meant to be ... but English doesn't use *rèad [ red ] to distinguish from "read" [ri:d] or *dèsert ['dezert] to distringuish from "desert" [di'zert] (oh God, I know the IPA is completly off...  ) either - so, I thought it might be confusing for learners from languages where accents are used frequently... *shrug* Just a thought...

[Taronyu]

People do the é merely to show that that is the stressed syllable.  It's important in cases like tute...  TUte - person.  tuTE - female person.  It's not actually a different letter than e.  It was a little confusing to me as well the first time I saw someone asking about it.

I don't believe -an gets the same stress though, but I could be wrong.

It says it does in Quentin Martinez's list.

You're right, english doesn't, but that's just a typing convention. 

[omängum fra'uti]

TBH I think it's confusing as well.  People think it's a different sound, I've seen at least one person ask how to pronounce /é/.

[Tskxäozì Ewaoe]

Isnt'the é just the e with a slight accent on it? Similar to an underline. (i.e. more stress on the syllable)

[Plumps]

That was exactly the idea behind it, I'm sure ... but people might confuse it with an actual, additional letter in the alphabet, same as i and ì which é is not