Author Topic: Plural prefixes?  (Read 3083 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline pxenari

  • Ketuwong
  • *
  • Posts: 19
  • Karma: 0
Re: Plural prefixes?
« Reply #20 on: June 23, 2011, 04:04:16 pm »
[Many on Earth would, in fact, say just that. Most languages where dual and trial grammatical numbers exist do this.

It would be far stranger to say "you three are an undefined number of morons", wouldn't you agree?

I guess you are right at that. There are terrestrial languages which use dual and trial, but in most major languages, it wouldn't make grammatical sense, would it?


But doesn't the absence of prefix imply an invisible ay-? Or have I understood things wrong again? :P

I am pretty sure that only when something is lenited can the prefix be removed, and s is not lenited. Right?
Oeru syaw fko Taronyu

(literally, my name is Hunter)

Offline Kamean

  • Eywatsyìp
  • ******
  • *
  • Posts: 10804
  • Karma: 64
  • Oe lu tute a tsun stivawm Eywayä mokrit
Re: Plural prefixes?
« Reply #21 on: June 23, 2011, 04:09:45 pm »
Yes. This is lenition table.

px, tx, kx → p, t, k respectively
p→f
t, ts → s
k→h
' → ø (vanishes)
Tse'a ngal ke'ut a krr fra'uti kame.


Offline Blue Elf

  • Palulukan Makto
  • *****
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 5499
  • cz Czech Republic
  • Karma: 112
    • My attempt for blog
Re: Plural prefixes?
« Reply #22 on: June 25, 2011, 04:19:44 pm »
True! I tend to think that infixes include prefixes and suffixes, but that's false, right?
Infixes doesn't include anything, but infixes + prefixes + sufixes = afixes (not sure if 'f' should doubled or not (lazy to check it :)))
Oe lu skxawng skxakep. Slä oe nerume mi.
"Oe tasyätxaw ulte koren za'u oehu" (Limonádový Joe)


Offline Tirea Aean

  • The Blue One
  • Olo'eyktan Anawm
  • Palulukan Makto
  • *****
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 9766
  • nv Eywa'eveng
  • Karma: 241
  • Oeri ran lu srung
    • Tirea Aean
Re: Plural prefixes?
« Reply #23 on: June 25, 2011, 08:11:20 pm »
True! I tend to think that infixes include prefixes and suffixes, but that's false, right?
Infixes doesn't include anything, but infixes + prefixes + sufixes = afixes (not sure if 'f' should doubled or not (lazy to check it :)))

indeed! (about the f doubles too)

infix: the thing you put inside a na'vi verb (literally why its called that)
prefix: the thing you put on the beginning of a word
suffix: the thing you put on the end of a word

the group of word-altering particles which all these belong to: affix

Learn Na'vi Discord Chat: https://discord.gg/WF6qcmv

Offline Ftxavanga Txe′lan

  • Palulukan Makto
  • *****
  • *
  • Posts: 1730
  • Karma: 32
    • My tumblr :)
Re: Plural prefixes?
« Reply #24 on: June 26, 2011, 01:15:30 pm »
Oh wow, it all makes sense now! :D

Offline omängum fra'uti

  • Moderator Emeritus
  • Palulukan Makto
  • *****
  • *
  • Posts: 3804
  • Karma: 127
  • Na'vi's first grammar nazi
    • Pronounced Na'vi words
Re: Plural prefixes?
« Reply #25 on: June 27, 2011, 03:26:06 pm »
[Many on Earth would, in fact, say just that. Most languages where dual and trial grammatical numbers exist do this.

It would be far stranger to say "you three are an undefined number of morons", wouldn't you agree?

I guess you are right at that. There are terrestrial languages which use dual and trial, but in most major languages, it wouldn't make grammatical sense, would it?
That's not really a fair comparison, because those "major languages" don't have dual or trial forms of plurality, just singular and plural forms.
Ftxey lu nga tokx ftxey lu nga tirea? Lu oe tìkeftxo.
Listen to my Na'vi Lessons podcast!

Offline Kä'eng

  • Uniltìranyu
  • **
  • Posts: 133
  • Karma: 12
Re: Plural prefixes?
« Reply #26 on: June 27, 2011, 03:46:45 pm »
If we're talking about the correctness of pxenga lu skxawng, you don't need to look to obscure languages to find one where the analogous sentence is incorrect. Even in English, where the only grammatical distinction is singular vs. plural, one says "You three are morons," not *"You three are a moron."
Ma evi, ke'u ke lu prrte' to fwa sim tuteot ayawne.
Slä txo tuteo fmi 'ivampi ngat ro seng, fu nìfya'o, a 'eykefu ngati vä', tsakem ke lu sìltsan.
Tsaw lu ngeyä tokx! Kawtu ke tsun nìmuiä 'ivampi ngat txo ngal ke new tsakemit.
Ha kempe si nga? Nì'awve, nga plltxe san kehe. Tsakrr, ngal tsatsengti hum!

Offline `Eylan Ayfalulukanä

  • Palulukan Makto
  • *****
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 4744
  • us United States
  • Karma: 44
  • Palulukan alu Kenya 06/23/1996 - 01/15/2017
    • The Lionlamb website
Re: Plural prefixes?
« Reply #27 on: June 28, 2011, 03:21:59 pm »
Some of this explicit marking for plural number might be related to the use of double negation. Its kind of the same principle.

Sometime back, I seem to remember the definition of ay+ could be used for an unspecified or unknown quantity of something that was more than one.

You could also imply members of a group with something like pxenga lu hapxi a pongu a skxawng

Yawey ngahu!
pamrel si ro [email protected]

Offline Ngawng

  • 'Eveng
  • ***
  • *
  • Posts: 256
  • Karma: 14
  • Nì'ul kame tskxe!
    • Pìlok
Re: Plural prefixes?
« Reply #28 on: August 12, 2011, 11:59:06 pm »
There's a new post on Karyu Pawl's blog basically saying that pxenga lu skxawng would be the correct way to say it. Makes sense to me, because it's not really necessary to specify the number more than once, (as in pxenga lu pxeskxawng, etc) or to have unnecessary plurals everywhere. Melikey to keep it simple :)

So, if number is established somewhere (like in the pronoun), then you don't need to put number prefixes on the other words in the clause...am I interpreting this right?

Offline Tswusayona Tsamsiyu

  • Palulukan Makto
  • *****
  • Posts: 1464
  • Karma: 8
  • Lu oeru 'awa 'u a new pivlltxe-'ivong Na'vi!!!!
Re: Plural prefixes?
« Reply #29 on: August 13, 2011, 03:02:48 am »
yeah... we actually all already saw that. but thanks anyway. :) :)
Nivume Na'vit, fpivìl nìNa'vi, kivame na Na'vi.....
oer fko syaw tswusayona tsamsiyu

Offline Sireayä mokri

  • Palulukan Makto
  • *****
  • *
  • Posts: 6012
  • Karma: 35
  • Veritas vos liberabit
Re: Plural prefixes?
« Reply #30 on: August 13, 2011, 08:26:30 am »
So, if number is established somewhere (like in the pronoun), then you don't need to put number prefixes on the other words in the clause...am I interpreting this right?

Yes, however you still can do that if you want to be more specific about each item you are referring to.
When the mirror speaks, the reflection lies.

Offline Ngawng

  • 'Eveng
  • ***
  • *
  • Posts: 256
  • Karma: 14
  • Nì'ul kame tskxe!
    • Pìlok
Re: Plural prefixes?
« Reply #31 on: August 14, 2011, 04:30:58 am »
yeah... we actually all already saw that. but thanks anyway. :) :)

Sorry

So, if number is established somewhere (like in the pronoun), then you don't need to put number prefixes on the other words in the clause...am I interpreting this right?

Yes, however you still can do that if you want to be more specific about each item you are referring to.

Cool *thumbs up*

 

Become LearnNavi's friend on Facebook Follow LearnNavi on Twitter! Watch LearnNavi's videos on YouTube

SMF 2.0.15 | SMF © 2017, Simple Machines
Privacy Policy
| XHTML | RSS | WAP2 | Site Rules

LearnNavi is not affiliated with the official Avatar website,
James Cameron, or the Twentieth Century-Fox Film Corporation.
All trademarks and servicemarks are the properties of their respective owners.
Images in the LearnNavi.org Forums and Gallery may not be used without permission.

LearnNavi Affiliates:
ToS

LearnNavi is the community to learn Na'vi, the Avatar Language
"A place where real friendships are made." -Paul Frommer

AvatarMeet | Learn Na'vi Forum | Learn Na'vi Wiki | Na'viteri

LearnNavi