Author Topic: ro+ vs. mì+  (Read 245 times)

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Offline Mech

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ro+ vs. mì+
« on: February 13, 2018, 03:10:21 am »
The adposition ro+ is explained in the dicitonary only as "at (locative)" but I have found no details or examples. For all intents and purposes it seems to be overlapping with mì+

i think (not sure how I can justify it) that ro+ is used for buildings. Eg. at home or at work. Whereas mì+ is used for both more specific (eg. a box) and more general (eg. an area, a planet) locations.

(Side-question: which adposition we use for saying "on the table"?)

Edit: I see there is an old discussion on this issue. Let's see if there is something new about it, or just delete this post :)
« Last Edit: February 13, 2018, 03:17:08 am by Mech »

Offline Eana Unil

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Re: ro+ vs. mì+
« Reply #1 on: February 13, 2018, 09:56:32 am »
Currently on mobile device so sorry for the short answer beforehand.
Ro is used for stuff like “at the communal fireplace“ “at hometree“ where mì would mean in the fireplace or in hometree. Mì is more commonly used because its meaning can be used in a broader sense.

ART should comfort the disturbed, and disturb the comfortable.
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Offline Plumps

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Re: ro+ vs. mì+
« Reply #2 on: February 13, 2018, 01:37:40 pm »
What EanaUnil said ;)

ro+ is locative “at” as well as temporal, e.g. in:

     Ro srro Ralu zola’u fte oehu ultxa sivi.
     ‘One day Ralu came to meet with me.’

+ is for “in” or “on” (a planetary surface).

“On the table” I’d say is sìn fyanyo

I refer you to my Annotated Dictionary – maybe you can work better with examples. ;)

Offline Mech

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Re: ro+ vs. mì+
« Reply #3 on: February 13, 2018, 02:29:10 pm »
Thanks for the replies. As for "on the day", there are some examples where is used :/

Fìtrrmì letsranten (on this important day).

Could there be a difference between ro srr and mì srr?

(btw would it be allowable to suffix it as trrro?)

Offline Tanri

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Re: ro+ vs. mì+
« Reply #4 on: February 14, 2018, 01:24:22 pm »
Kaltxì ma Mech :-)

The adposition is used with words of time, because the basic meaning of ro is about location, not time.

There is however one specialty, when ro is used to distinguish between intervals of time.
The suffix -o means "time interval", and with adpositions ro or ka we can say "within the interval of time" or "during entire interval of time":
     Pa’li tolätxaw ro tono. - The direhorse returned in the night (at some unspecified point of time within the night)
     Tompa zolup ka txono. - The rain was falling at night (during the night, all the time from evening to morning)

And yes, ro can be used as a suffix, just as any other adposition. ;)
     Po ’olongokx ’Rrtaro - He was born on the Earth.
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Offline Toliman

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Re: ro+ vs. mì+
« Reply #5 on: February 15, 2018, 03:00:56 am »
Hmm ... interesting!

So Tsawke mì saw is more right if I want say Sun on the sky, kefyak?

Offline Mech

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Re: ro+ vs. mì+
« Reply #6 on: February 15, 2018, 04:29:03 am »
@Tanri

Your examples are clear, but when we get into the scene, what is the difference between

mì srr (I think -o is not needed here)
ro srro
ka trro

??

I think that mì somehow overlaps with the other two, standing somewhere between. I mean, I think that in your above examples with ro and ka, you could have the option to use instead

Offline Tanri

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Re: ro+ vs. mì+
« Reply #7 on: February 16, 2018, 04:55:29 am »
I think of it not as an overlap, but as close refinement of the meaning:

1) is a generic meaning, it covers all the situations
2) -o refines the meaning by focusing on interval of time
3) then, ka and ro dig deeper into detail and differ between "full-time duration" and "some moment within that interval"

So, if I donť have to mention such details, I'd stay with .
The other variants should be used only when needed. ;)
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Offline Blue Elf

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Re: ro+ vs. mì+
« Reply #8 on: February 16, 2018, 02:25:50 pm »
(btw would it be allowable to suffix it as trrro?)
although ro adposition can be normally used as suffix (it means postposition :), or as linguists say, enclitic adposition), *trrro is not allowed, IMHO.
Problem is in triple r - how to pronounce it? It can't be shortened to trro either, as -o suffix means time duration. So the only correct version is ro srr.
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