san … sìk-ing and mood infixes

[Plumps]

Ma ayeylan,

maybe this is too obvious but I was wondering how to use the mood infixes in quoting a person. My problem is between the word-for-word quotation on the one hand, but on the other hand the statement that mood infixes convey the feelings of the speaker.

Example#1:

   Eytukan: »Ngenga Na'viyä hapxì luyu set.«
   Txewì: Eytukan poltxe san ngenga Na'viyä hapxì luyu set (sìk).

Okay, this one is acceptable. Txewì is repeating what Eytukan said exactly.

Example#2:

   Eytukan: »Pamtseori Neytiri sulängìn nìhawng.«
   Txewì: Eytukan poltxe san pamtseori Neytiri sulängìn nìhawng (sìk).

Does that now mean Txewì is displeased about Neytiri being engrossed in music (because ‹äng› connotates the mood of the speaker, in this case: Txewì) or does the san ... sìk element transfers the whole spoken bit and must be seen outside of what Txewì feels and must state what Eytukan actually said?

On this note, it is perhaps useful to distinguish ‹ats› and ‹uy› from ‹ei› and ‹äng›. Chances are, if Eytukan wasn't sure about something (a call for ‹ats›), Txewì would as well.

Your thoughts are appreciated

[Tirea Aean]

Ma ayeylan,

maybe this is too obvious but I was wondering how to use the mood infixes in quoting a person. My problem is between the word-for-word quotation on the one hand, but on the other hand the statement that mood infixes convey the feelings of the speaker.

Example#1:

   Eytukan: »Ngenga Na'viyä hapxì luyu set.«
   Txewì: Eytukan poltxe san ngenga Na'viyä hapxì luyu set (sìk).

Okay, this one is acceptable. Txewì is repeating what Eytukan said exactly.

Example#2:

   Eytukan: »Pamtseori Neytiri sulängìn nìhawng.«
   Txewì: Eytukan poltxe san pamtseori Neytiri sulängìn nìhawng (sìk).

Does that now mean Txewì is displeased about Neytiri being engrossed in music (because ‹äng› connotates the mood of the speaker, in this case: Txewì) or does the san ... sìk element transfers the whole spoken bit and must be seen outside of what Txewì feels and must state what Eytukan actually said?

On this note, it is perhaps useful to distinguish ‹ats› and ‹uy› from ‹ei› and ‹äng›. Chances are, if Eytukan wasn't sure about something (a call for ‹ats›), Txewì would as well.

Your thoughts are appreciated

I'm gonna anticipate that whatever is in san sìk is the direct speech of what that person said. BUT as we know, we even use direct speech even when paraphrasing a person's speech:

Eytukan said he's coming. = Poltxe Eytukan san oe zera'u.

so really it could go either way, but i would say that whatever is being quoted houses NO emotion of the speaker, but rather the person he is quoting. if the person saying that Eytukan said he's coming is HAPPY about that, i would expect:

Poltxeie Eytukan san oe zera'u. (that he is coming, speaker is happy, eytukan is neutral)

instead of

Poltxe Eytukan san oe zera'eiu. (that he is coming speaker is neutral, Eytukan is happy)

[Muzer]

My instincts say to agree with Tirea.

[Sireayä mokri]

I agree with Tirea Aean as well. I think if a person wants to express his/her own emotions, he/she can add something after the quote: Eytukan poltxe san pamtseori Neytiri sulängìn nìhawng sìk ulte pohu oe mllte.

[omängum fra'uti]

Whatever is in san...sìk is from the point of view of who is being quoted, in the context of when they are being quoted, so I don't think it would make sense for that not to extend to the mood/affect infixes.

Consider other infixes like tense...  If I we take someone in the past talking about a future event that has now happened...  For example "He said he would kill her, and he did..."
Po palmlltxe san oel poti tspasyang sìk ulte po tsakem salmi.
I don't think anyone would question the use of future tense there to describe what is now a past event.  So it would be odd for other infixes then to relate to the current speaker.

[Plumps]

Ayngeyä aysäfpìlìri ayngaru seiyi irayo oe.

As I said, maybe it is too obvious but after a while one starts to wonder about things that should be clear for ages