Author Topic: Struggling with adpositions  (Read 945 times)

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Offline Taronyu Leleioae

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Struggling with adpositions
« on: June 14, 2012, 07:36:14 pm »
Inviting (ok... begging!) for help with translating a complex sentence to help me understand how to apply adpositions properly.  (And please correct anything else as well!  Just explain why!)  I want to translate the following.  I've included what I think are the words close to what I'm looking for, however I'm struggling with the adpositions and what a proper translation should be.  I'm also thinking my word order is a little off?

"You shoot into the hoofprint of your direhorse, for that is where the thanator will be."

(The intention is the hoofprint behind you.  And I discovered that there is no word I could find for hoofprint.  The closest I could find is "track/trace of an animal".)

======================================================

What I came up with:

You = nga
shoot = tem or toltem
into = nemfa
the hoofprint (which doesn't exist and should!).. I modified to be track/trace = tsmìm
of = (from which is adp. (direction) = ftu *** (not sure what to attach it to)
your = (I came up with) ngeyä
direhorse = pa'li

for
that is where (or maybe simplify it to be "there"?) = tsatseng ?
the thanator = palulukan
will be = tok

======================================================

Putting it together...

Nga tem nemfa tsmìm ftu ngeyä pa'li, tsatseng palulukan tok.

(I realize ftu isn't attached, I'm not sure what to do with it!)

Could you kind and knowledged brothers and sisters have pity on a child and help me sort this out?

Many thanks!  (And offers a fresh "utu mauti" in return.)

Offline Plumps

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Re: Struggling with adpositions
« Reply #1 on: June 15, 2012, 03:54:49 am »
It’s never wrong to ask for help ;) And help is always given here nìprrte’ – with pleasure ;)

All the constituents of your sentence are there, so you made the major work already – now the task is to put them together so that they make sense grammatically ;)

Nì’awve, I have to say, this sentence is almost good as-is. Also, you showed what I try to encourage people: look for synonyms or related words if the word that you’re looking for doesn’t seem to be in the dictionary.

Alright, first part of the sentence:


You = nga
shoot = tem or toltem
into = nemfa
the hoofprint (which doesn't exist and should!).. I modified to be track/trace = tsmìm
of = (from which is adp. (direction) = ftu *** (not sure what to attach it to)
your = (I came up with) ngeyä
direhorse = pa'li

1) I think you would have to use tem here because toltem is transitive (i.e., you shoot something/someone)
2) “of” here is not an adposition but the whole thing is a genitive construction. You are right in that the print comes from the direhorse, but you could also say “the direhorse’s track” – the ’s is a sure sign that it’s a genitive construction. The construction in Na’vi is almost always something with -ä or -yä

     nemfa tsmìm pa’liyä ngeyä
     into the track of your pa’li

The reason I switched the position of pa’li and ngeyä is one of ambiguity. I think from the context it would be clear but with your word order one could also understand “into your print of the pa’li”

A note on ftu: You are right, it denotes direction, but also movement. oe za’u ftu txayo means “I come from the plain/field”. In this respect, ftu in connection with a footprint doesn’t make sense (it would literally be moving away from the hoof ;) )

Second part:


for (= taluna)
that is where (or maybe simplify it to be "there"?) = tsatseng ?
the thanator = palulukan
will be = tok

You can leave out “for” completely but you could also use taluna. Again, “for” is not an adp. here but a conjunction, a word that connects clauses. You could replace it with “because” and that word we have ;)

“to be in a place, to occupy that place” in Na’vi is transitive, meaning that you have to put the -L and -T endings on the constituents of the sentence. Now, who or what is there? – the Thanator; so he gets the L. It is where? – there; so that gets the T.

“will be” is the future. As you know this is done by infixes, in this case ‹ay› – tok becomes tayok. I’m not sure whether this is required here, though. Your sentence has such an idiomatic quality to it that it’s a fact.

     … (taluna) tsatsengit palulukanìl tayok.
     … (because) the Thanator will be there.

Concerning your question about the adp.s: They don’t have to be attached to the noun they refer to. In this instance they very much behave like our prepositions. You can put a possessive pronoun (my, your, his etc.) or adjectives between it and the noun.

If you choose to attach it to the noun the only thing you have to pay attention to is that it is written in one word. So your sentence could also be written as,

     Nga tem tsmìmnemfa pa’liyä ngeyä, taluna tsatsengit palulukanìl tok.

You see, the relatively free worder of Na’vi makes for a lot of variation and versions of one sentence ;)

I hope that helped…
« Last Edit: June 15, 2012, 11:23:46 am by Plumps »

Offline Taronyu Leleioae

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Re: Struggling with adpositions
« Reply #2 on: June 27, 2012, 11:36:19 pm »
Plumps,

Your level and detail of explanation was "spot on" to help me "to see" how to properly complete this complex sentence.  (My first actually...)  This has also really clarified how I need to approach transitive verbs and reminding me which endings must go where.  And I also greatly appreciate that you took me through this step by step rather than just giving me a completed sentence.  By teaching me this way, I can "see" how to further develop my understanding of similar sentences.

Irayo!!!

Offline Plumps

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Re: Struggling with adpositions
« Reply #3 on: June 28, 2012, 02:51:01 am »
Nìprrte’ … always there to help if I can ;)

Offline Seze Mune

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Re: Struggling with adpositions
« Reply #4 on: June 28, 2012, 09:35:51 am »
I agree.  You explained the sentence with great clarity, ma Plumps.  It was a pleasure to watch this develop, and I hope for more in the future.   :D

 

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