The use of "yä"

Started by Atoki Atanyä, January 02, 2010, 05:05:55 AM

Previous topic - Next topic

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Atoki Atanyä

Kaltxi,

Just wondering, many posts i have read use "yä" in this form: "Oel tsmukanyä", whereas the Linguistics Crash Course PDF download states that it should be used in this way: "Oelyä tsmukan"

Im just a little confused as to which i should trust grammar-wise.

Any answers would be fantastic.

Txan irayo.
Atoki's Guide to Learning Na'vi: Part One is Here!

omängum fra'uti

Depends, are you trying to say brother's me (Oel tsmukanä), or my brothers? (Oelä tsmukan)

Think of it as 's and put it where you'd put the 's.
Ftxey lu nga tokx ftxey lu nga tirea? Lu oe tìkeftxo.
Listen to my Na'vi Lessons podcast!

Tìsyaw Nantangä

Yeah just thinking of it as 's has helped me a lot. Also thought I'd point out that you drop the y in -yä if the last letter of the base word is a consonant, which is why omängum fra'uti didn't put ys in oelä or tsmukanä.
Mì saw, kawtul tsun stivawm ngayä ayzawngit.

omängum fra'uti

Srane, tsa'u ngay lu!
Ftxey lu nga tokx ftxey lu nga tirea? Lu oe tìkeftxo.
Listen to my Na'vi Lessons podcast!

Tskxäozì Ewaoe

Try out skxawng's worksheets.

Tanax

Quote from: omängum fra'uti on January 02, 2010, 05:09:17 AM
Depends, are you trying to say brother's me (Oel tsmukanä), or my brothers? (Oelä tsmukan)

Think of it as 's and put it where you'd put the 's.

Sorry for dumb question here, but what's the difference? Could you put those 2 examples in 2 sentences? I mean the english now, "Brother's me" and "My brothers".

omängum fra'uti

Well "Brother's me" isn't grammatically correct, in either English or Na'vi.

-ä/-yä goes on who is doing the possessing, not who is doing the possessed.
Ftxey lu nga tokx ftxey lu nga tirea? Lu oe tìkeftxo.
Listen to my Na'vi Lessons podcast!

Tanax

Alright, so let's post an example here if I understood it correctly.

Eyktan-yä sempul
Leader's father
Father being the posessed and the leader is posessing

Eyktan sempul-yä
Father's leader
Leader being the posessed and the father is posessing

Correct?

Tìsyaw Nantangä

Mì saw, kawtul tsun stivawm ngayä ayzawngit.

Atoki Atanyä

So to say my brother would be Oelä tsmukan?

And irayo aynga.

Just ONE more teeny-tiny question:

The hypen for words incorporating the full form "yä", such as Tanax's example "Eyktan-yä sempul"; necessary or not? Could you not just write Eyktanyä? or is this a time where the yä addition weakens the wording?

Txan irayo :)

EDIT: PS, i'm currently working off of Na'vatar's worksheets.
Atoki's Guide to Learning Na'vi: Part One is Here!

omängum fra'uti

Oelä is stacking noun cases.

Oe-l-ä. 1-ERG-GEN.  It would be Oe-yä.

And no, the hyphen is just there to clarify what the root word is for people not used to reading Na'vi yet.  We like people to use it in the beginner forum, along with english translations of any Na'vi.
Ftxey lu nga tokx ftxey lu nga tirea? Lu oe tìkeftxo.
Listen to my Na'vi Lessons podcast!

Atoki Atanyä

I see. Irayo for clearing that up, ngalu txantslusam si n`ıwin. :)

Txan Irayo, ulte Kiyevame.

Atoki.
Atoki's Guide to Learning Na'vi: Part One is Here!

omängum fra'uti

ngalu txantslusam si n`ıwin. :)
You make wisdom quickly

Nga with the ergative is actually nga-l, but in this case I believe it would just be nga.  However, "si" isn't quite a regular verb, it's used to create verbs out of nouns, such as "nari si" (Make eye - look).  If you intended si to really be sì (and) then ..  Well to be honest I'm not sure how you'd say that with two adjectives, it may be right.  Though a "lu" for "are" would be good.  (Nga txantslusam lu - you are wise, or nga *win lu - you are fast (nìwin is actually an adverb, win we don't know but it can be assumed to be something about being quick, probably an adjective).

Ngaru layivu tìomum txan
Ftxey lu nga tokx ftxey lu nga tirea? Lu oe tìkeftxo.
Listen to my Na'vi Lessons podcast!

Atoki Atanyä

i was considering using win, but the dictionary said it meant speed, and that sin`ıwin would mean fast. Oops :P

I was also considering using ulte, but that is for sentences, and i felt that this could be constituted as a single sentence. Perhaps "nga txantslusam lu ulte nga n`ıwin lu" (still not sure of which form of win to use) would be more appropriate?

Anyway, you are clever as hell when it comes to this, and you are spot on with your corrections, which are usually made in about a minute, a true gift.

nga silstan karyu lu.

I bet i screwed that up as well, i'm such a skxawng. :P

I'm doing the worksheets, i'm getting there :P

Txan irayo, ma omängum fra'uti.
Atoki's Guide to Learning Na'vi: Part One is Here!

Plumps

Quote
Eyktan- sempul
Leader's father
Now I'm confused again if you say that this is correct because a few posts above you said that "-yä" would be used after vocals and "-ä" after consonants

???

Tanax

Quote from: Plumps83 on January 02, 2010, 08:26:53 AM
Quote
Eyktan- sempul
Leader's father
Now I'm confused again if you say that this is correct because a few posts above you said that "-yä" would be used after vocals and "-ä" after consonants

???


Actually, I didn't say anything about that. That would be omängum fra'uti who said that, and since he has a quite large knowledge of Na'Vi I would say that my examples would be slighty incorrect then. It should've been Eyktan-ä sempul and Eyktan sempul-ä.

Plumps

Where's the inclusive/exclusive marker when you need it? ;D

I wasn't referring to you specifically ;) Okay then, it's clearer :)

Atoki Atanyä

Quote from: Plumps83 on January 02, 2010, 09:47:04 AM
Where's the inclusive/exclusive marker when you need it? ;D

I wasn't referring to you specifically ;) Okay then, it's clearer :)


Yet it still remains difficult to learn.... :P

RELEASE DR. FROMMER'S DOCUMENTS NOW< PEOPLE AT FOX, or we shall storm your buildings on our ikran and pa'li :P
Atoki's Guide to Learning Na'vi: Part One is Here!

Plumps