"Taron" related questions.

Started by Nuruhuine, December 28, 2009, 11:49:23 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Nuruhuine

Kaltxi ma smukan si smuke
Ayngaru lu fpom srak.

So I read that interview of Paul Frommer on http://movieblog.ugo.com/movies/paul-frommer-interview and apparently, according to what he says, "taron" has to be pronunced "gad'on".

Here is the quote:
Paul Frommer: Well, there's a root called "taron" (pronounced "gad'on") which means "hunt." If you want to modify that to mean "hunting has been completed," to add a past tense or future tense or imperfect aspect, rather than putting something at the beginning or end, you put something right after the "t" – so various forms appear: "tovaron, telaron, tusaron, tairon" – that is relatively rare in human language. And that was really fun to do.

Now how is this possible? According to Wikipedia, "Taron" 's pronunciation should go like this: [taron].

On a side note, we can see some new infixes in the verb apparently...
<ov> <el> <us> <ai?>
Any idea what they might be for?

The only infixes that we know about so far (Wikiepdia) are:

Tenses:
Future = ay
Immediate future = iy
Recent past = im
Past = am

Aspects:
Perfective = ol
Imperfective = er
Subjonctive = iv   

Coda

I believe that the consensus here is that the UGO transcription was way off.

edmoreira

#2
regarding the pronunciation I wouldn't trust the "gad'on" because it's not IPA and I don't think that Frommer wrote that, I think the interview was oral, and then somebody at UGO wrote that. Remeber that the r is an alveolar flap IPA /ɾ/ and  it's very similar to English d (but not the same). On the other hand the official explanation posted by Dr. Frommer and B. Zimmer, say that the t is voiceless and g is actually voiced. So it CAN'T be "gad'on", whatever they tried to say there. They even say that the x is a click when an ejective and a click are different things!
Eywa ngahu
Etx
PS I wish everybody used IPA so these misunderstandings wouldn't happen

Taronyu

Quote from: edmoreira on December 29, 2009, 12:03:18 AM
PS I wish everybody used IPA so these misunderstandings wouldn't happen

Amen. I think the /d/ transcription was right. As for g - we've seen that voiced stops in English are transcribed as aspirated stops in Na'vi - I don't think Frommer would have added in a g, then, for 'taron'. That'd be ridiculous. I think the transcription was poor.

The fact that it is velar is disconcerting - but listen to the movie, and it's pretty clear it's taron.

edmoreira

#4
@ Taronyu: Thanks for the comment and let me tell you that I'm always happy to find another IPA fan!

Quote from: Taronyu on December 29, 2009, 12:13:15 AM
I think the /d/ transcription was right.
I'm sorry but I have to disagree. /d/ is a voiced alveolar plosive
Frommer described the r as a liquid, liquids are flaps, trills and approximants (the ones that are not glides like /w/ and /j/)
so r is a /ɾ/ when is non-syllabic and /r/ when it's syllabic. /ɾ/ and /d/ are both voiced alveolar but /d/ is plosive and /ɾ/ is a flap and of course the syllabic rr is /r/ that's a strong trill (but also voiced alveolar)
I'm not a linguist so please correct me if I'm wrong but that's my understanding

Eywa ngahu
Etx   

Taronyu

Once again, i need to stop and think before I say anything. You're right, /d/ is a Na'vi phoneme.

I was thinking of the way Neytiri told Jake to 'Kxo bakx", as it were.

Nuruhuine