Definition disambiguation

Txonpay · March 19, 2024, 07:45:25 PM

I caught another thing: inconsistent parts of speech for verb phrases. Tswìk kxenerit and eltur tìtxen si behave like phrases, but are listed as vin. on Reykunyu and dict-navi. In addition, txe'lanti wrrzärìp, tìpe'ngayt wrrzärìp and tìpe'ngayt wrrzeykärìp have a different PoS on dict-navi: idiom. $:-\$

Vawmataw · March 19, 2024, 08:15:15 PM

Indeed they should be listed as phrases or idioms* because it's a verb + object pair. Had the verbs appeared alone (i.e. the verbs instead of the pair have an idiomatic meaning), they could have been considered as vin or vtr. However perhaps the authors or collaborators have an explanation.

Spoiler: *

Txonpay · March 19, 2024, 08:32:43 PM

Quote from: Vawmataw on March 19, 2024, 08:15:15 PMHowever perhaps the authors or collaborators have an explanation.

Yeah. The source for eltur tìtxen si has no part of speech, and I don't think we had the phrase part of speech in 2010. The source for tswìk kxenerit lists it as a vin. Seems that Pawl doesn't use phrase or idiom as a part of speech, and the discrepancies in our dicts are from individuals' decisions.

Vawmataw · March 19, 2024, 08:40:12 PM

Oh, then in that case I think we should rely on Karyu Pawl's information when possible. For the missing information, we'll have to analyse each expression (and hopefully stay consistent)

Txonpay · March 19, 2024, 08:44:51 PM

Got it. Maybe we can ask if "I smoke" is "oel tswìk kxenerit" or "oe tswìk kxenerit"? I strongly suspect it's the former.

Toliman · March 19, 2024, 10:29:26 PM

Quote from: Txonpay on March 19, 2024, 07:45:25 PMI caught another thing: inconsistent parts of speech for verb phrases. Tswìk kxenerit and eltur tìtxen si behave like phrases, but are listed as vin. on Reykunyu and dict-navi. In addition, txe'lanti wrrzärìp, tìpe'ngayt wrrzärìp and tìpe'ngayt wrrzeykärìp have a different PoS on dict-navi: idiom. $:-\$

Yeah, next good catch

Toliman · March 19, 2024, 10:36:16 PM

Quote from: Txonpay on March 19, 2024, 08:44:51 PMGot it. Maybe we can ask if "I smoke" is "oel tswìk kxenerit" or "oe tswìk kxenerit"? I strongly suspect it's the former.

Yeah, me too

Txonpay · March 19, 2024, 11:44:37 PM

Quote from: Toliman on March 19, 2024, 10:36:16 PM
Quote from: Txonpay on March 19, 2024, 08:44:51 PMGot it. Maybe we can ask if "I smoke" is "oel tswìk kxenerit" or "oe tswìk kxenerit"? I strongly suspect it's the former.
Yeah, me too

I put it in a Na'viteri comment

Toliman · March 20, 2024, 12:00:46 AM

Quote from: Txonpay on March 19, 2024, 11:44:37 PM
Quote from: Toliman on March 19, 2024, 10:36:16 PM
Quote from: Txonpay on March 19, 2024, 08:44:51 PMGot it. Maybe we can ask if "I smoke" is "oel tswìk kxenerit" or "oe tswìk kxenerit"? I strongly suspect it's the former.
Yeah, me too
I put it in a Na'viteri comment

Txantsan

Vawmataw · March 20, 2024, 04:28:01 PM

Quote from: Txonpay on March 19, 2024, 08:44:51 PMGot it. Maybe we can ask if "I smoke" is "oel tswìk kxenerit" or "oe tswìk kxenerit"? I strongly suspect it's the former.

I think it would be Oel because tswìk is a transitive verb

Toliman · March 20, 2024, 05:27:59 PM

Quote from: Vawmataw on March 20, 2024, 04:28:01 PM
Quote from: Txonpay on March 19, 2024, 08:44:51 PMGot it. Maybe we can ask if "I smoke" is "oel tswìk kxenerit" or "oe tswìk kxenerit"? I strongly suspect it's the former.
I think it would be Oel because tswìk is a transitive verb

Oe mllte.

Txonpay · March 23, 2024, 02:50:16 PM

It has just come to my attention that I assumed äie (spiritual vision) was a countable noun, but an example sentence suggests it's not a countable noun. $:-\$

Toliman · March 23, 2024, 03:09:51 PM

Quote from: Txonpay on March 23, 2024, 02:50:16 PMIt has just come to my attention that I assumed äie (spiritual vision) was a countable noun, but an example sentence suggests it's not a countable noun. $:-\$

Which sentence?

Txonpay · March 23, 2024, 03:51:21 PM

In a deleted scene of Avatar 1:

QuoteNa'vi: Fìtaronyur apxan teswotivìng äiet angay.
English: Grant this worthy warrior true vision.

(source)

Upon further inspection, this doesn't specify äie's countability either $:-\$

Toliman · March 23, 2024, 03:56:07 PM

Yeah, true.

Txonpay · March 23, 2024, 05:46:52 PM

The first post is updated with äie, and I will update the spreadsheet in a few hours

Txonpay · March 23, 2024, 06:19:59 PM

Oh. I realized many of these ambiguous words are ASG ones with no example sentences on Na'viteri. 'Ok, äie, renu and maybe others. I guess I should search through them when I can. $:-\$

Toliman · March 24, 2024, 01:02:41 AM

Quote from: Txonpay on March 23, 2024, 05:46:52 PMThe first post is updated with äie, and I will update the spreadsheet in a few hours

Txantsan

Toliman · March 24, 2024, 01:08:34 AM

Quote from: Txonpay on March 23, 2024, 06:19:59 PMOh. I realized many of these ambiguous words are ASG ones with no example sentences on Na'viteri. 'Ok, äie, renu and maybe others. I guess I should search through them when I can. $:-\$

Yeah, example sentences would be useful.

Txonpay · March 24, 2024, 02:41:06 AM

I made a list of ambiguously countable noums from the ASG. Now I will sleep, then I will improve my list and post it here once satisfied