Author Topic: Eana Eltu: Translator, Dictionary, API and putxìng.  (Read 20033 times)

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Offline Numeie

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Re: Eana Eltu: A Na'vi->English translator
« Reply #20 on: January 08, 2010, 06:18:19 pm »
Please report any bugs or "strange things" that may occur, such as undetected words or wrong translations.
It doesn't seem to handle plurals. If I ask it to translate tokx sokx aysokx mesokx it gives body Unable to translate Unable to translate Unable to translate.

<iv> goes in the second position. Only <us>, as far as we know, takes the first.
There's also a reflexive infix which goes in the "pre-first" (Frommer's designation thereof) position, but we don't know what it is.
« Last Edit: January 08, 2010, 06:22:51 pm by Numeie »
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Offline Txen Seri Unil

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Re: Eana Eltu: A Na'vi->English translator
« Reply #21 on: January 08, 2010, 06:36:33 pm »
Kaltxi!

I have been using the Na'vi -> English translator you posted but just realized something. It would help me more (and hopefully others) if there were an English to Na'vi translator! If it showed the infixes the same way that the Na'vi to English one does it would be great! If I started typing in a bunch of common phrases and saw how they morphed repeatedly in the same way my brain would lock in!

Thoughts?

I'll cross post this to the other thread as well.

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Offline Hawnuyu atìtse'a

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Re: Eana Eltu: A Na'vi->English translator
« Reply #22 on: January 08, 2010, 07:03:57 pm »
About that, English is immensely larger compared to navi in both grammar and vocabulary. Also, a program would have trouble with double meanings of verbs, idioms, and most importantly gender because nouns don't specify that in English.
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Offline Wayutral

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Re: Eana Eltu: A Na'vi->English translator
« Reply #23 on: January 08, 2010, 07:54:48 pm »
Tuiq, maybe we could discuss parsing and pattern techniques in this thread to help improve your translator, since there are several of us who started similar work in parallel? Do you use regexps or a more analytical strategy?

Offline Tuiq

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Re: Eana Eltu: A Na'vi->English translator
« Reply #24 on: January 08, 2010, 09:03:07 pm »
Do you use regexps or a more analytical strategy?

It's a clever mix of both. Just throwing regexp around won't translate anything.

About that, English is immensely larger compared to navi in both grammar and vocabulary. Also, a program would have trouble with double meanings of verbs, idioms, and most importantly gender because nouns don't specify that in English.

Yes, and there will be the main problem. I think the way it is now is and will be the best. Maybe add some UI to it.


However, I'm quite proud to present Eltu Aean. It's a, at the moment, primitive parser for a self defined (okay, it's the output from navi->english, if you want to) to translate English to Na'vi. Please see that there are a few things to keep in mind at the moment:

- The words are all according from Taronyus guide. For example, to let him translate 'you all' you have to specify 'youall'. This is perhaps a bit uncomfortable at the moment. However, you can also just say 'nga' - since it has to work with names it will do whatever you want ('youall-ACC' does 'ayngati')
- It's following the pocket guide.
- It's beta. Like Eana Eltu.
- Feedback is welcome.
- If you want to know which commands there are, take a look at the list at the end.

Some quotes you could translate (one per line):
Quote
I-ERG you-ACC see-<LAUD>
Blue-ADJR Brain-ERG eat branch-ACC danger-FADJL

The list of "parameters". They have to be attached directly to the word they modify. For example: "kame-<PEJ>-TIME(DISTANT.PAST)".

Quote
-NOUN
-ADJ
-ADJL
-ADJR
-FADJ
-FADJR
-FADJL
-ADV
-ACC
-GEN
-DAT
-PERS
-MASC
-FEM
-DUAL
-PLURAL
-TOP
-ADPOS(PER.with.by.means.of)
-ADPOS(WITH.accompaniment)
-ADPOS(FOR.THE.SAKE.OF)
-ADPOS(TO.direction)
-ADPOS(FROM.direction)
-ADPOS(FROM.generic)
-ADPOS(FROM.ABOVE)
-ADPOS(VIA.ALONG)
-ADPOS(ACROSS)
-ADPOS(IN)
-VERB
-TIME(JUST.HAPPENED)
-TIME(DISTANT.PAST)
-TIME(IMMINENT.FUTURE)
-TIME(DISTANT.FUTURE)
-TIME(PRESENT)
-TIME(PAST.OVER)
-TIME(PRESENT.CONTINUING)
-TIME(JUST.HAPPENED.CONTINUING)
-TIME(DISTANT.PAST.CONTINUING)
-MODIFIER(PARTICIPLE[QUITE.UNKNOWN])
-TIME(SUBJUNCTIVE[QUITE.UNKNOWN])
-TIME([UNKNOWN])
-<LAUD>
-<PEJ>
« Last Edit: January 08, 2010, 09:04:48 pm by Tuiq »
Eana Eltu: PDF/TSV/jMemorize

Offline Tuiq

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Re: Eana Eltu: A Na'vi->English AND English->Na'vi translator
« Reply #25 on: January 09, 2010, 09:02:11 am »
Push, I think the last great extension I'll add - The online Na'vi dict. Self-explained, working.
Eana Eltu: PDF/TSV/jMemorize

Offline Hawnuyu atìtse'a

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Re: Eana Eltu: A Na'vi->English AND English->Na'vi translator and dictionary
« Reply #26 on: January 09, 2010, 12:31:17 pm »
English to navi works good, although I couldn't get it to input this(fì) or that(tsa).
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Offline Nume fpi sänume

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Re: Eana Eltu: A Na'vi->English AND English->Na'vi translator and dictionary
« Reply #27 on: January 09, 2010, 12:34:03 pm »
Cool, yeah it picks up most of what I put in, very awesome :D

Offline Hawnuyu atìtse'a

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Re: Eana Eltu: A Na'vi->English AND English->Na'vi translator and dictionary
« Reply #28 on: January 09, 2010, 12:39:07 pm »
For a beta, it's solid. Just needs some tweaking.
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Offline Wayutral

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Re: Eana Eltu: A Na'vi->English translator
« Reply #29 on: January 09, 2010, 12:47:35 pm »
It's a clever mix of both. Just throwing regexp around won't translate anything.

Regexps can do the trick for the basic morphology, but of course not for compounding or syntax.
The approach I took was treelike structures, which allows a smooth transition from morphology to syntax.
I gather that Numeie was envisioning a similar system down to the phoneme.
Well, let us know if you wish to discuss some aspects of the task at hand.

Offline Tuiq

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Re: Eana Eltu: A Na'vi->English AND English->Na'vi translator and dictionary
« Reply #30 on: January 09, 2010, 12:56:39 pm »
English to navi works good, although I couldn't get it to input this(fì) or that(tsa).

True. Isn't implemented yet. Is it in the PG? Will have a look later.

Regexps can do the trick for the basic morphology, but of course not for compounding or syntax.
The approach I took was treelike structures, which allows a smooth transition from morphology to syntax.
I gather that Numeie was envisioning a similar system down to the phoneme.
Well, let us know if you wish to discuss some aspects of the task at hand.

The awesome thing about Na'vi is that there IS no syntax (except adjectives, of course, because of the -a or a-). Since you are free to order the words like you want there's no need to go at this too complicated. The only thing that really could be named "syntax" would be verb infixes - but even they are not that hard if you are able to make correct syllables out of words (which Eltu handles pretty well)
Eana Eltu: PDF/TSV/jMemorize

Offline Hawnuyu atìtse'a

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Re: Eana Eltu: A Na'vi->English AND English->Na'vi translator and dictionary
« Reply #31 on: January 09, 2010, 12:59:48 pm »
Free word order ftw.

The work done on both translators is incredible, I suggest everyone bookmark them.

Irayo!
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Offline Numeie

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Re: Eana Eltu: A Na'vi->English translator
« Reply #32 on: January 09, 2010, 01:13:15 pm »
I gather that Numeie was envisioning a similar system down to the phoneme.
Haven't done any work on it yet, and unlikely to in the near future. Since other people are working on this I'm leaving it for the time being and working instead on the Spanish Avatar wikia, which is surprisingly time-consuming.

Quote from: Tuiq
The awesome thing about Na'vi is that there IS no syntax (except adjectives, of course, because of the -a or a-).
Cases allow relatively free word order within a clause but I think that once you start using relative clauses some word order is likely to matter.
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Offline Tuiq

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Re: Eana Eltu: A Na'vi->English AND English->Na'vi translator and dictionary
« Reply #33 on: January 16, 2010, 06:44:20 pm »
Update. A big one, this time. New vocabulary and some behind-the-scenes-work.

You can now choose an "advanced" method to translate Na'vi->English. It's probably better and will replace the old one. However, there could be some modifiers missing (man, I had to enter about 50). If there are any wrong translations or he's missing a prefix/postfix/adposition/WHATEVER please tell me.


Advanced Translation already prechecked, saves you 2 secs of your life!
Eana Eltu: PDF/TSV/jMemorize

Offline Fkeu Omaticaya Tzmukan

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Re: Eana Eltu: A Na'vi->English AND English->Na'vi translator and dictionary
« Reply #34 on: January 24, 2010, 08:32:42 pm »
kaltxì Eana Eltu. there happens to a bug unfortunately -----   ngahu (a)    (pn.) which, that   Unknown modifier '-ADPOS(WITH.ACCOMPANIMENT)'. Please report this as a bug!

Offline Nume fpi sänume

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Re: Eana Eltu: A Na'vi->English AND English->Na'vi translator and dictionary
« Reply #35 on: January 24, 2010, 10:42:56 pm »
Your work here continues to be up to date, and very useful. Thank you for the effort your putting into this.

Offline Kiliyä

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Re: Eana Eltu: A Na'vi->English AND English->Na'vi translator and dictionary
« Reply #36 on: January 24, 2010, 10:50:48 pm »
For some reason, it's unable to translate tìyawn for me.  I think it doesn't like me...  :'(
Peu sa'nokyä ayoengyä?  Pefya ayoeng poeru kìte'e sayi?
Pefya ayoengìl poeti hayawnu, na poel ayoengit hawnu?

What of our mother?  How shall we serve her?  How shall we protect her as she protects us?

Offline Tuiq

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Re: Eana Eltu: A Na'vi->English AND English->Na'vi translator and dictionary
« Reply #37 on: January 25, 2010, 04:59:29 am »
kaltxì Eana Eltu. there happens to a bug unfortunately -----   ngahu (a)    (pn.) which, that   Unknown modifier '-ADPOS(WITH.ACCOMPANIMENT)'. Please report this as a bug!

It's fixed. Irayo.

For some reason, it's unable to translate tìyawn for me.  I think it doesn't like me...  :'(

I'm a bit lazy in uploading the new vocabulary database. It's not your fault, the vocabulary was just not up to date. Fixed.

Your work here continues to be up to date, and very useful. Thank you for the effort your putting into this.

Thanks.


As an update note, I've added the trial markers (px-, pxe-) to the advanced translation tool. The normal translation method will be removed soon. Oh, and on a side note, English->Na'vi is really out to date (at least its way of translations, lenitions and this kind of thing). It still can give you a "hint" what a translation probably could look like (it's still a good source for verbs, I think it's the only thing around that can handle infixes right?)
« Last Edit: January 25, 2010, 05:01:53 am by Tuiq »
Eana Eltu: PDF/TSV/jMemorize

Offline Tuiq

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Re: Eana Eltu: A Na'vi->English AND English->Na'vi translator and dictionary
« Reply #38 on: January 31, 2010, 05:58:08 pm »
Update (only for the IRC as of now):

!navinum - translates a decimal number between 1 and 32767 to Na'vi.

!nl, !navnl, !sentnl - Thanks to leofox there's a almost-working service to lookup words in the dictionary from/to Dutch. Since !esent does not really work (and isn't used, maybe because it's outdated) there won't be !nlsent to translate from nl to Na'vi. DIY.

To get a complete list of the bot command's type /msg EanaEltu help. Please notice that in the query you do not have to put '!' before the commands.
Eana Eltu: PDF/TSV/jMemorize

Offline 'Awve Tìkameie

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Re: Eana Eltu: A Na'vi->English AND English->Na'vi translator and dictionary
« Reply #39 on: January 31, 2010, 09:50:32 pm »
Very nice, I'll be adding this into the Featured Links area of my website the next time I update it (tomorrow, most likely)
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