An Annotated Dictionary (update 06 February 2023)

Started by Plumps, August 31, 2014, 11:18:56 AM

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wm.annis

Ma Plumps,

One of the things I did to my own conlang's dictionary recently is add bookmarks to match with the different letter sections. That way standard PDF viewers' own TOC tools will let you jump closer to where you want to be. I believe you're already using hyperref, so the command is already there for you:


\pdfbookmark[level][toc entry text][label]


For my own language, the line for the N's looks like \pdfbookmark[2][N][n-lexicon], and sits right above the latex that formats the heading. You'd probably use level 0.

Toliman


Plumps

Quote from: wm.annis on December 12, 2020, 12:14:25 PM
Ma Plumps,

One of the things I did to my own conlang's dictionary recently is add bookmarks to match with the different letter sections. That way standard PDF viewers' own TOC tools will let you jump closer to where you want to be. I believe you're already using hyperref, so the command is already there for you:


\pdfbookmark[level][toc entry text][label]


For my own language, the line for the N's looks like \pdfbookmark[2][N][n-lexicon], and sits right above the latex that formats the heading. You'd probably use level 0.

That is a great idea. Thanks ma William. I will tackle that once I'm fit enough to sit in front of a computer screen again. ;)

wm.annis

An idea for a usage example for sunu. None of the current examples establish that person can sivunu. Since Na'vi is sometimes sensitive to vocab that can be used of people, it seems worth a note. Example from this 2016 blog post: frapor a ke sunu por zoplo si.

wm.annis


Plumps

Quote from: wm.annis on January 03, 2021, 01:24:50 PM
An idea for a usage example for sunu. None of the current examples establish that person can sivunu. Since Na'vi is sometimes sensitive to vocab that can be used of people, it seems worth a note. Example from this 2016 blog post: frapor a ke sunu por zoplo si.

Added.

Quote from: wm.annis on January 05, 2021, 09:17:57 AM
The Pandorapedia reference under täftxuyu has a broken link.  It has http://www.pandorapedia.com/navi/music/ritual_music but it should be https://www.pandorapedia.com/navi/music/ritual_music.html

Fixed.

Thank you so much! It will be included in the next release.

Plumps

Latest upate is online (version 210405). Direct link can be found in the first post. For the extended changes please refer to the change log.

Plumps

Latest upate is online (version 210509). Direct link can be found in the first post. For the extended changes please refer to the change log.

wm.annis

Your definition of yak has the word "forc." It should be "fork"  :)

Plumps

Yikes! :o
Thanks for the hint. Will be corrected in the next update :D

wm.annis

I wonder if it's worthwhile to note under kem si that both fìkem si and tsakem si are attested at NaviTeri.org. You wouldn't normally expect the demonstrative prefixes to be usable with other si verbs, I suspect (except maybe with relativized nouns).

Wllìm

#151
Quote from: wm.annis on October 17, 2022, 10:41:42 AM
You wouldn't normally expect the demonstrative prefixes to be usable with other si verbs, I suspect (except maybe with relativized nouns).

Actually, according to Pawl, "[y]ou can modify the noun component of si-construction verbs in most cases when it makes sense". Wina uvan si play a quick game is attested, therefore I don't see why tsauvan si play that game wouldn't work.

Source (also contains some more examples and discussion): https://forum.learnnavi.org/language-updates/si-verbs-modification/msg599196/#msg599196

wm.annis

Quote from: Wllìm on October 17, 2022, 11:16:25 AMaccording to Pawl, "[y]ou can modify the noun component of si-construction verbs in most cases when it makes sense".

I'm too steeped in certain linguistic theories. I don't usually consider demonstratives (fì-, tsu-) the same things as modification the way adjectives are. As Paul mentions in his reply, there are surely a lot of si verbs where modification or demonstratives wouldn't be allowed (or make much sense most of the time, like txopu si).

My inclination would be to include fìkem si and tsakem si in a dictionary, but I can see the counter-arguments.

Tekre

#153
Yes, of course demonstratives and adjectives are two different things, and also obviously handled very differently in Na'vi as demonstratives are prefixes here, but I don't really see that as an argument as Pawl was talking about modifications and not adjectives specifically. Of course this doesn't make sense with all verbs, as stated by Pawl himself, but it makes a lot of sense with some imo. Two examples where I personally consider the modification on the si-verb as the most elegant solution:

- Ma aynumeyu, rutxe tsatskxekeng sivi - Please do that exercise, @learners. I actually used that sentence a few times at the end of my lessons, and it never occured to me as strange, I couldn't think of a (simple) way to say exactly the same thing without it sounding very strange. Using the demonstrative on the si verb directly seems to be the most elegant solution to me here
- A sentence by Wllìm, New oe tsauvan sivi - to quote myself from a discussion on Discord, if the corerct alternative for this is supposed to be New oe tsauvanur uvan sivi I'm gonna quit learning this language xD

Blue Elf

I looked into current version of dictionary and I think that "A note of pronunciation" chapter could be improved a little, as there is new dialect (Lì'fya Wionä), which contains some sounds not known/used in Lì'fya Na'rìngä.

What I mean:
The letters b, c, d, j and q don't exist, g and x only appears in combination - they don't have a sound value of their own.

This is true in LN, but in LW letters b, d and g exist and have their own sound. This should be considered and fixed in dictionary.
Oe lu skxawng skxakep. Slä oe nerume mi.
"Oe tasyätxaw ulte koren za'u oehu" (Limonádový Joe)


Plumps

Quote from: Blue Elf on January 22, 2023, 09:33:44 AMI looked into current version of dictionary and I think that "A note of pronunciation" chapter could be improved a little, as there is new dialect (Lì'fya Wionä), which contains some sounds not known/used in Lì'fya Na'rìngä.

What I mean:
The letters b, c, d, j and q don't exist, g and x only appears in combination - they don't have a sound value of their own.

This is true in LN, but in LW letters b, d and g exist and have their own sound. This should be considered and fixed in dictionary.

You are totally right, I tried to amend that with the latest version. I took Paul's words about focus on the Forest Na'vi dialect and included explanations of different dialects in the section. I'm not going to include b, d and g in the entries, though since it is purely a matter of pronunciation (as we've seen with the plurals or lenition in general, the underlying ejective is still there)

Plumps

Quote from: wm.annis on October 17, 2022, 10:41:42 AMI wonder if it's worthwhile to note under kem si that both fìkem si and tsakem si are attested at NaviTeri.org. You wouldn't normally expect the demonstrative prefixes to be usable with other si verbs, I suspect (except maybe with relativized nouns).

Sorry, I totally missed that.
What form do you think this should take? There are separate entries for both fìkem/tsakem with respective si varieties and under kem there is fìkem and tsakem mentioned.

What else do you have in mind?

wm.annis

Quote from: Plumps on February 07, 2023, 08:34:20 AMThere are separate entries for both fìkem/tsakem with respective si varieties and under kem there is fìkem and tsakem mentioned.

Aaah! I hadn't noticed the separate entries, only the subdefinitions under kem. It his highly likely I am overthinking this.

Blue Elf

Is it possbile to search in the dictionary? When I open PDF file and try search for any word, it can't find anything. Is searching locked? I'm searching for one example, where "fu X fu Y ...." is used, but I think we have "ftxey X ftxey Y ..." for this purpose.
Oe lu skxawng skxakep. Slä oe nerume mi.
"Oe tasyätxaw ulte koren za'u oehu" (Limonádový Joe)


Plumps

Quote from: Blue Elf on February 12, 2023, 04:29:58 AMIs it possbile to search in the dictionary? When I open PDF file and try search for any word, it can't find anything. Is searching locked? I'm searching for one example, where "fu X fu Y ...." is used, but I think we have "ftxey X ftxey Y ..." for this purpose.

That's odd. It should not be locked. I can search but of course, in PDF format it gives you everything within the document. I often select the section of the letter in the table of contents and search again. It could also be different depending on whether you use Adobe or some other PDF reader.

You are probably thinking about (non-)choice statements/questions. Look in the entry for fu and you should find that.