Re: LA Times - Na'vi Challenge - And the WINNER is...

[Prrton]

All of the commentary is helpful and I will take the suggestion to suggest that K. Pawl have a look (if he has the time).

My biggest concern is that not more people have voted!! There is only 1/2 a day to go on the deadline. I don't have any POWER to advertise this more broadly, so if anyone does, please DO.

I didn't create the deadline, K. Pawl did based on the publishing deadline.

RAWKE RAWKE! Rutxe, ma Frapo, tìng mokri sì FTXEY!

Send personal messages to people if you have to.

Irayo!

[Ftiafpi]

All of the commentary is helpful and I will take the suggestion to suggest that K. Pawl have a look (if he has the time).

My biggest concern is that not more people have voted!! There is only 1/2 a day to go on the deadline. I don't have any POWER to advertise this more broadly, so if anyone does, please DO.

I didn't create the deadline, K. Pawl did based on the publishing deadline.

RAWKE RAWKE! Rutxe, ma Frapo, tìng mokri sì FTXEY!

Send personal messages to people if you have to.

Irayo!

Perhaps you should edit the OP of the original topic, that way if someone clicks on the news link they'll see the voting link right away.

[Nìwotxkrr Tìyawn]

I deliberately chose "tail" rather than "queue" because grabbing someone's queue seemed to me like an extremely hostile act - as hostile as threatening to gouge out someone's eyes, or worse - and I wanted the expression to be taunting but not threatening.  Tail-grabbing, on the other hand, seems to me like a dominance-establishing act, similar to "counting coup", but with an even stronger aspect of maintaining an advantaged position over someone in a fight - if you have someone's tail, you undoubtedly have them at a very significant disadvantage, both positionally (you are behind them, you can see them but they can't see you) and manipulatively (you can control their large body movements to some degree, and you can probably inflict a great deal of pain, similar to what you can do to a human if you have a firm hold of their arm while it's pinned behind their back).

Also, in American English the word "tail" is also a reference to the word "butt", and the phrase "your butt is mine" (or more commonly "your a** is mine") is a phrase roughly meaning "I'm going to defeat you" or "you're going down".  The English phrase "your butt is mine" and the Na'vi phrase "I have your tail" have very different connotations, of course - the first is "I will defeat you and take your butt as a trophy" and the second is "I am in control of you".  But the meaning of the two idioms when used as a competitive taunt is the same: "you will lose".

So for two different reasons - one meaningful to Na'vi speakers, one meaningful to English speakers - I thought that "Oeru lu ngeyä kxetse!" would be a good choice.

  - Eri

I am a native english speaker so I know that tail can be used to refer to the butt, however whenever I hear it used like that it is always in a sexual manner such as "chasing tail" or "getting some tail", I've never heard anyone say "I'm gonna kick your tail" which sounds just weird.

After your explanation I understand why you would use tail now but IMO unless there's going to be a whole paragraph explaining why tail was chosen on the ad, I don't think it will really have the same meaning to people outside of our community.

sawtute reading future ad: "wtf?"

[Prrton]

I deliberately chose "tail" rather than "queue" because grabbing someone's queue seemed to me like an extremely hostile act - as hostile as threatening to gouge out someone's eyes, or worse - and I wanted the expression to be taunting but not threatening.  Tail-grabbing, on the other hand, seems to me like a dominance-establishing act, similar to "counting coup", but with an even stronger aspect of maintaining an advantaged position over someone in a fight - if you have someone's tail, you undoubtedly have them at a very significant disadvantage, both positionally (you are behind them, you can see them but they can't see you) and manipulatively (you can control their large body movements to some degree, and you can probably inflict a great deal of pain, similar to what you can do to a human if you have a firm hold of their arm while it's pinned behind their back).

Also, in American English the word "tail" is also a reference to the word "butt", and the phrase "your butt is mine" (or more commonly "your a** is mine") is a phrase roughly meaning "I'm going to defeat you" or "you're going down".  The English phrase "your butt is mine" and the Na'vi phrase "I have your tail" have very different connotations, of course - the first is "I will defeat you and take your butt as a trophy" and the second is "I am in control of you".  But the meaning of the two idioms when used as a competitive taunt is the same: "you will lose".

So for two different reasons - one meaningful to Na'vi speakers, one meaningful to English speakers - I thought that "Oeru lu ngeyä kxetse!" would be a good choice.

  - Eri

I am a native english speaker so I know that tail can be used to refer to the butt, however whenever I hear it used like that it is always in a sexual manner such as "chasing tail" or "getting some tail", I've never heard anyone say "I'm gonna kick your tail" which sounds just weird.

After your explanation I understand why you would use tail now but IMO unless there's going to be a whole paragraph explaining why tail was chosen on the ad, I don't think it will really have the same meaning to people outside of our community.

sawtute reading future ad: "wtf?"

We only have a few minutes to go, so I'm going to throw in my opinion on the frontrunner as well and clarify again about the final selection process.

I agree that anything with "tail" in it could be quite controversial. However, anyone who's seen the film knows that the Na'vi all have tails, actual extensions of their vertebral column, so the "poetic license" may be able to more easily skew towards humor "ha ha" than humor "slapped face".

Based on what's happened with the numbers (and more on what HASN'T happened in terms of turnout), I'm planning on sending everything with 5 or more votes to K. Pawl. He will be the arbiter of what goes to the LA times for the ad AND, he'll modify the Na'vi language as necessary, possibly substituting words or grammar here and there. Of course, I'll encourage him again to look at all the comments before he makes his final decisions.

5 minute warning!

THANK YOU ALL, for participating!

The lock will snap on sharply at 5:00.

B/Prr

[Prrton]

Loaded and LOCKED!

Ma smuk, nìmun ayngaru irayo seiyi oe!

[Prrton]

Congratulations to Eri!

'Oleyng nga nìltsan, ma Eri! Ngari Nawma Sa'nok lrrtok soleiyi.

Your entry in the "You're Going Down" contest, "Oeru lu ngeyä kxetse--Your tail is mine" was the clear winner!

I've already submitted it to the Los Angeles Times editor. The only revision I made was to change the word order to place more emphasis on the "mine":

Ngeyä kxetse lu oeru.

(The end of the sentence is where the "punch" comes.)

And thanks to everyone who entered and voted.

Irayo ayngaru nìwotx!

Kìyevame,

Pawl

[Kaltxì Palulukan!]

I have to laugh.

After allthe crap I have taken for word placement, the good professor phrases it this way:

Your-->tail-->is-->mine. (Not tail mine is your, or is tail mine your). If he said "Ngeyä kxetse lu oeru."

I could actually understand what he said without having to unscramble the words. Yaay Pawl!

[Prrton]

I have to laugh.

After allthe crap I have taken for word placement, the good professor phrases it this way:

Your-->tail-->is-->mine. (Not tail mine is your, or is tail mine your). If he said "Ngeyä kxetse lu oeru."

I could actually understand what he said without having to unscramble the words. Yaay Pawl!

Well... "FREE" word order generally does mean "FREE". Nobody should be FORCED to Yoda-fy anything. ...Get it?, FORCEd... 

Anyone with a bow as big and pink as yours can SVO it all you like, darnit!

I DARE anyone to stand in your way.

_______________________

[Kaltxì Palulukan!]

I know what free means--and I enforce it daily. I still get endless crap from the experts around here--and it is getting o-l-d.

[Nìota]

Congratulations, Erimeyz! You've not only won the challenge, but influenced the Na'vi language with a new idiom! What are your plans now? *holds out microphone.*

But for realzies, so glad this phrase won. Totally deserving. ^-^

[Robert Nantangä Tirea]

awwww shucks one of my submisions was at 4 votes! so close =(

[Erimeyz]

Congratulations, Erimeyz! You've not only won the challenge, but influenced the Na'vi language with a new idiom! What are your plans now? *holds out microphone.*

Kìlyä ne Eywa'eveng!

[Erimeyz]

'Oleyng nga nìltsan, ma Eri! Ngari Nawma Sa'nok lrrtok soleiyi.

Ngaru seiyi oe irayo, ma Karyu.  Sìlpey oe, Nawma Sa'nok lrrtok siyevi frapori a tsaye'a tsaylì'u, fte nayew nivume nì'ul.

  - Eri

[Erimeyz]

Congratulations to Eri!
(The end of the sentence is where the "punch" comes.)

By the way, is that a new discourse rule we've just been given?  It is, isn't it?

Yay!

  - Eri

[Nyx]

Congrats, Erimeyz! It really was a good phrase

And I have to add:

Nobody should be FORCED to Yoda-fy anything. ...Get it?, FORCEd... 

LOL!

[Ftiafpi]

Wooohoo! This is great! Congrats everyone.

[wm.annis]

By the way, is that a new discourse rule we've just been given?  It is, isn't it?

It is, so into the Canon it goes...

[Toruk Makto]

Tewti! That is indeed the deserving quote!  Brilliant!   

[Kaltxì Palulukan!]

awwww shucks one of my submisions was at 4 votes! so close =(

LOL! My submission was directly UNDER the winning vote--so technically I was closer to winning! 

[dylanbarash]

wierd pic

Dear Community members of LearnNavi.org,

A full-page ad ran in the Los Angeles Times, "The Envelope" supplement, Wed., Feb. 10. It was for an iPhone app, "The Envelope App."

The graphic was an iPhone with the App going. This was the complete text:



      [PSEUDO-NA'VI, IN SINGLE QUOTES,
      ALL CAPS, LARGE FONT. 17 CHARACTERS ONLY.]

      [SLIGHTLY SMALLER FONT, ALL CAPS]
       THAT'S NA'VI FOR
       YOU'RE GOING DOWN

      [Small type, upper/lower]
      Take on top film critics and writers in a
      race to predict who will win the Oscars.
      Get live news feeds from our entertainmen
      experts. Buy low. Sell high. Then beat
      them at their own game.

                       [LOGO]

             Los Angeles Times
            THE ENVELOPE APP
         Nominate yourself to win.

             Get it on your iPhone,
             free in the App Store.



So the challenge is, what can we say for "You're going down" (meaning: "You're going to LOSE!") niNa'vi?

"We would like a line that communicates 'you are going down' or 'you are going to lose'. This fits with the tone and spirit of our game. Please feel free to have fun with it.

"I can't wait to see what you come with. "

Ideally the line should be something that fits in with Na'vi life and culture. The example I first thought of was, "Ikranìl yìyom ngeyä teylut" -- "An ikran is about to eat your teylu." But that's too derivative of the "eat your lunch" expression in English. The Community can come up with something much better.

Keep it short! And if there's a great concept but a vocabulary item or two is missing, not to worry--I'll fill in the blank.

The time frame is tight, since March 7 is fast approaching.

The reward is having your Na'vi published in the Los Angeles Times, even if it is an advertisement.

Fìtìkangkemìri, sìlpey oe, ayngaru prrte' livu!

Pawl

Submissions are complete. Please vote by 5:00 PM Sunday, 21 February (PST) over the weekend. The top items in terms of popularity will be submitted to Karyu Pawl for his final selection/decision. You may vote for 3 choices.