Author Topic: Na'vi Affixes  (Read 1882 times)

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Offline Tsyeymzi

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Na'vi Affixes
« on: January 01, 2010, 11:07:13 pm »
Hey guys,

I made this PDF on the Affixes of Na'vi and I wanted to get it checked, I'm not sure how much of it is right and if the translations are correct, so it would be great if one of the ayeyktan could verify it ;)

Na'vi Affixes - New Version: 1.0 ALPHA
Na'vi Affixes - Old Version: 0.2
Na'vi Affixes - Old Version: 0.1

DISCLAIMER:
Whilst in almost "gold" stages, I still do not recommend people refer to this guide unless you are already competent in Na'vi Affixes.

Irayo aysmukan si aysmuke,
- Nì'ul Nì'awtu
« Last Edit: January 03, 2010, 09:58:33 am by Nì'ul Nì'awtu »
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Re: Na'vi Affixes
« Reply #1 on: January 01, 2010, 11:54:15 pm »
I can't comment on the accuracy, but it's a very well done guide.

Thanks for making it!  ;D

Offline Tsyeymzi

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Re: Na'vi Affixes
« Reply #2 on: January 02, 2010, 07:32:22 am »
So, regardless of the accuracy, you find it a good guide that is easy to understand?

I tried to make it as simple as possible. But just as a note, it's probably not correct so don't start using it just yet ;)

However, I do find myself constantly referring to it when making sentences. Hopefully once it's all corrected, it will be a much easier and quicker process for everyone.
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Offline damp

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Re: Na'vi Affixes
« Reply #3 on: January 02, 2010, 07:42:09 am »
Man, good job, but I only have seem the first page and I found this mistakes:

1. Na’vi: “Oel Ikranyäti maktor” the ‐l is added after the Oe.
I ride my ikran

The right sentence will be Oel oeyä Ikranit makto
The yä it is not put in ikran, and the verb is makto not maktor. My is oeyä.
kaltxí ngaru lu fpom srak?

Offline damp

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Re: Na'vi Affixes
« Reply #4 on: January 02, 2010, 07:49:59 am »
Quote
‐yä
Used to show ownership.
Na’vi: “Oe Ikranyä” the ‐yä is added after Ikran.
English: “My Ikran”
Again. The right it's "Oeyä"

Quote
‐ru
Indicates the noun which is receiving an object from the subject.
Na’vi: “Ma Bob tìng wutso ma Joe‐ru” the ‐ru is added after Joe.
English: “Bob gives dinner to Joe.” Bob is the subject, dinner is the object and Joe is receiving it.

You can't uses ma when you are not talkink directly to the person:
Ex:"Ma sempu, Eywa ngahu"
Dad, Eywa be with you
(right way)

Ma bob tsawl lu
Bob is big
(wrong) !

Bob gives dinner to Joe it will be:
Bob-l wutso-ri Joe-ru tìng

kaltxí ngaru lu fpom srak?

Offline damp

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Re: Na'vi Affixes
« Reply #5 on: January 02, 2010, 07:58:43 am »
Quote
a‐
Same as ‐a except it shows the adjective describing the noun BEFORE the prefix.
Na’vi: “Ioang afkeua” the a‐ is added before Fkeua.
English: “Mighty beast”

Mighty = fkeu , not fkeua

Quote
The infix for past‐tense is ‐ìmso
you would get Tes‐wìmo‐tìng, put the word back together and you get: Teswìmotìng.

The infix you should put after the T:

Tìmeswotìng

So all the verbs infix are in the wrong position.

:D
kaltxí ngaru lu fpom srak?

Offline Tsyeymzi

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Re: Na'vi Affixes
« Reply #6 on: January 02, 2010, 08:22:24 am »
Irayo ma Damp.

Yes, there are a few mistakes; and yes the Infixes are all screwed, I didn't realise that until after I had "finished" it. I actually typed this up a few days ago, but just never bothered posting it. In those few days, my Na'vi has increased a little to see A LOT more mistakes in it. But, that's what this forum is for :)

On the infixes though, I thought infixes only ever went into penultimate and ultimate syllables? And are we supposed to take into account that each vowel is actually a syllable?

...Can someone explain this damned infix thing to me? Every time I think I've got it, it slips away.
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Offline Tsyeymzi

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Re: Na'vi Affixes
« Reply #7 on: January 02, 2010, 09:56:31 am »
New Version: 0.2

...Still no change on the Infix section though, I just corrected the mistakes in Prefixes and Suffixes.
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Offline Thorinbur

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Re: Na'vi Affixes
« Reply #8 on: January 02, 2010, 10:13:12 am »
Could you please make some "Lite", printable version? (For example without background) Or public it in doc or odt format?
oel kame futa oel kekame ke'u

Offline Tsyeymzi

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Re: Na'vi Affixes
« Reply #9 on: January 02, 2010, 10:52:08 am »
Could you please make some "Lite", printable version? (For example without background) Or public it in doc or odt format?

I do have a printer friendly version:

Na'vi Affixes - 0.2 Printer Friendly

Disclaimer:
This guide is unfinished and as such may not be entirely correct. In addition, caution is advised when reading the Infix section as it is, in fact, wrong.
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Offline damp

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Re: Na'vi Affixes
« Reply #10 on: January 02, 2010, 11:13:03 am »
The infix system have 3 positions:
Ex: T<pos1><pos2>ar<pos3>on

The inffixes that we know are most of them in position 2, like:
<ay>, <ìy>, <am>, <ìm>, <ol>, <er>, <ìrm> and <arm>

and in position 3: <ei>, <äng>
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Offline Tsyeymzi

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Re: Na'vi Affixes
« Reply #11 on: January 02, 2010, 08:08:48 pm »
The infix system have 3 positions:
Ex: T<pos1><pos2>ar<pos3>on

The inffixes that we know are most of them in position 2, like:
<ay>, <ìy>, <am>, <ìm>, <ol>, <er>, <ìrm> and <arm>

and in position 3: <ei>, <äng>

So, <pos3> is always towards the end of the word. I'm assuming after the first consonant of the last syllable.

But what about <pos1> and <pos2>, where do they go? How do I write this out for people?
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Offline damp

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Re: Na'vi Affixes
« Reply #12 on: January 02, 2010, 09:12:36 pm »
they go after the first letter.
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Offline Tsyeymzi

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Re: Na'vi Affixes
« Reply #13 on: January 02, 2010, 10:30:41 pm »
they go after the first letter.

Now that would make EASY sense, but Na'vi? Easy? Surely not?

Ok, so as I see it:

Position 1 and 2 go directly after each other, which is always after the first consonant in the word.
Position 3 is always in the last syllable, also after the first consonant (in the syllable).

Correct?

Can I get other people to back me up with this also?
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Offline omängum fra'uti

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Re: Na'vi Affixes
« Reply #14 on: January 02, 2010, 10:37:15 pm »
Quote
The infix for past‐tense is ‐ìmso
you would get Tes‐wìmo‐tìng, put the word back together and you get: Teswìmotìng.

The infix you should put after the T:

Tìmeswotìng

So all the verbs infix are in the wrong position.

:D
Actually Tes-w<ìm>o-tìng is correct.
Ftxey lu nga tokx ftxey lu nga tirea? Lu oe tìkeftxo.
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Offline omängum fra'uti

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Re: Na'vi Affixes
« Reply #15 on: January 02, 2010, 11:10:19 pm »
Other mistakes...

Aytaronyu in the ay- example should be aysaronyu

aw- - aside from being 'aw - the glottal stop is considered a consonant sound just like any letter, there is no indication this is actually a prefix, or if the uses are just compounded words.  The only word where it appears like it could be a prefix is 'awpo.  The rest look more like they may have a suffix (-ve - indicating ordinal? Just a guess, don't include that) or are certainly compound words ('awsiteng - literally make one way).  I'd highly recommend 'aw- not be listed as a prefix at all.

mun- Same as -'aw...  I don't see it as a prefix really, it's just part of the word two (mune), there is only one case of it being used in a word and that's muntxe (Mun + ultxa - two meet)

ke- We're not entirely clear exactly what the correct usage of ke is, so this may or may not be correct.

ti-, ni- these are tì- and nì-

-ìm- Past tense, yes, but specifically past proximate (Or near/immediate past, in simpler if not as correct terms).  The example spells that out, but the description does not.
-er- NOT past tense.  This is the imperfective aspect, it says nothing about WHEN it occurred.  It could have been past, present, or future.  It's just describing some ongoing process, or something without a defined start and end.
-ol- NOT past tense.  This is the perfective aspect, it says nothing about WHEN it occurred.  It could have been past, present, or future.  It's just describing something that occurred as a single event.  It could have happened over time, as long as there is a defined start and end to it.
-ìrm- (Note the ì not i) This is a combination of -ìm- and -er- - It's past imperfective, something that happened in the past as an ongoing thing.
-ang- This is really -äng-

Also you can add -am- Past tense (General) and -ìy- Future tense (Proximate, the future version of -ìm- - about to happen)
-iv- Is the subjunctive (Something that may or may not be true, for example a hypothetical situation)
-us- is the participle (An adjective describing the result of a verb...  The learned professor, etc.)

Your description of the syllable the infixes go in is correct, however you might want to include that they go before the vowel, specifically.

Suggestion: On prefixes, mark which cause lenition.  In some examples I've seen, this is marked with a + (IE ay+ rather than ay-).  For sure, ay+ and me+ do, I don't believe any of the others you include currently do however.

Missed prefixes:
pe+ (Causes lenition) - indicates a question about the noun it is attached to.  Pe-ikran - what ikran?
fì- This (noun), something close.  fì-ikran - This ikran.
fay+ (fì + ay) These (nouns), many things close.  fay-ikran - These ikrans.
tsa- That (noun), something distant.  tsa-ikran - That ikran.
fra- Every (noun), all of something.  Frapo - everybody.
la- Other, lapo - Other person
teng- Same, teng-krr - Same time

Missed suffixes:
-pe (Same as pe+)
All adpositions can act as suffixes instead of prepositions.
Ftxey lu nga tokx ftxey lu nga tirea? Lu oe tìkeftxo.
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Offline damp

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Re: Na'vi Affixes
« Reply #16 on: January 03, 2010, 08:26:44 am »
Quote
The infix for past‐tense is ‐ìmso
you would get Tes‐wìmo‐tìng, put the word back together and you get: Teswìmotìng.

The infix you should put after the T:

Tìmeswotìng

So all the verbs infix are in the wrong position.

:D
Actually Tes-w<ìm>o-tìng is correct.

Why ?
kaltxí ngaru lu fpom srak?

Offline Tsyeymzi

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Re: Na'vi Affixes
« Reply #17 on: January 03, 2010, 08:35:17 am »
Irayo ma Omängum Fra'uti, I was waiting for your post :)

And so I did have the infixes correctly the first time around?! Now I'm extremely confused...

Pos.1 goes before the first vowel of the second-last syllable and Pos.2 goes before the first vowel of the last syllable?

...And yes, a lot of those other errors I fixed in a later version that I was about to post with revised infixes, which I need to re-revise now... haha.

Also, when you say "causes lenition", what exactly do you mean. I know what lenition is, but are the rules simply beyond the letters at the start of the word colliding with vowels?
« Last Edit: January 03, 2010, 08:37:44 am by Nì'ul Nì'awtu »
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Offline Tsyeymzi

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Re: Na'vi Affixes
« Reply #18 on: January 03, 2010, 09:45:03 am »
New Version: 1.0 ALPHA

DISCLAIMER:
Whilst in almost "gold" stages, I still do not recommend people refer to this guide unless you are already competent in Na'vi Affixes.

Big jump in the development process, but I think this may almost be finalised, barring a few things I can't explain or translate (They are in red).

I'd really appreciate it, Omängum Fra'uti, if you could go over this one. This should be near perfect :)
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Offline Thorinbur

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Re: Na'vi Affixes
« Reply #19 on: January 03, 2010, 09:57:58 am »
Maybe you should send it to Dr. Frommer after sommeone will confirm it here. It would be nice to have such nice compedium officially confirmed.
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