Na'vi Pocketmod guide

[Ftiafpi]

I hate spelling (Fixed it for ya )

[Mawey Seze]

Oh, and perhaps we should have a version rotated for digital reading since this is such a concise guide it would be great to have on the computer as well.

I would love a fully digital version (flipped right-side up, of course) that I could check out on my iPhone, just as a pdf.  Love having so many options!

All right, I added a "digital" version that's a horizontal scroll of the seven panels (and in a double-whammy update, I corrected my spelling of "Pronunciation" which no one caught).

You are awesome, these need to be included in our growing repertoire of downloads (any mods reading this?)

[MidnightLightning]

Bibbity, bobbity, bump! Any experts want to sign off on this such that it can be distributed?

[Ftiafpi]

Having used it a bunch there's some minor changes I would like to see made, let me get them sorted and I'll post them here.

I agree though, this is extremely valuable.

[Nume fpi sänume]

Thanks for bringing this back up, I will add it to the projects database

[HTML_Earth]

I found a minor typo in the Useful Words/Phrases section:

"Oel nagti kameie"
ngati*

[Ftiafpi]

On the verbs section I would add these (from Taronyu's dictionary):

• Past Imperfect: <arm> (Oe tarmaron = I was hunting)
• Perfective: <ol> (Oe tolaron = I hunted (finished action))
• Immediate Future: <ìy> (Oe tìyaron = I am about to hunt.)
• Subjunctive Mood: <iv> (Nga kame futa oe tivaron = You see that I hunt)
• Possibly change "Recent Imperfective" to "Recent Past Imperfective" to make it a little clearer. But then again, it takes up more space so I leave it up to you.
• Change (teraron = hunting) to (teraron = am hunting)

Change "1st infix position" to "2nd infix position"

In tense and affect combined I'd put <> around the infixes to show where they are.

Also in the verbs section:

I'd add an example for the negative (ke).

Add something for +pe:

pe+: affix inter. marker what: pe+hrr nga tayaron. What time will you hunt?

In the phrases I would change "Ngal tslam Na'viyä aylì'ut srak?" to "Ngal tslam Na'viyä lì'fyat srak?" (change words to language)

Perhaps add to the phrases: Mìfìtseng nìmun ye'rìn: In-here again soon. (Be right back) (This should be verified or perhaps simplified)

[Ftiafpi]

I found a minor typo in the Useful Words/Phrases section:

"Oel nagti kameie"
ngati*

Good catch.

[MidnightLightning]

"Oel nagti kameie"

Fixed!

On the verbs section I would add these (from Taronyu's dictionary):

Added.

Change "1st infix position" to "2nd infix position"

Are you saying that I have "first" and "second" swapped? Or are you suggesting changing "first" to "1st" for space?

In tense and affect combined I'd put <> around the infixes to show where they are.

Added.

Add something for +pe:
pe+: affix inter. marker what: pe+hrr nga tayaron. What time will you hunt?

I'm not familiar with that one; is there more information on pe+ somewhere?

In the phrases I would change "Ngal tslam Na'viyä aylì'ut srak?" to "Ngal tslam Na'viyä lì'fyat srak?" (change words to language)

"Language" doesn't seem to be in the LearnNavi.org dictionary; are you sure that's the official word for 'language'? I used that phrasing as it was what arrived from discussions on this thread

Perhaps add to the phrases: Mìfìtseng nìmun ye'rìn: In-here again soon. (Be right back) (This should be verified or perhaps simplified)

Added.

I've uploaded new versions of the three styles, with the indicated changes made.

[Ftiafpi]

Are you saying that I have "first" and "second" swapped? Or are you suggesting changing "first" to "1st" for space?

Just saying that other places describe those infixes as going in the 2nd position. Obviously this depends on what you call the 2nd position but we should probably be consistent. I was just referencing Taronyu's dictionary though so perhaps he got it wrong and you got it right (as far as being consistent goes).

I'm not familiar with that one; is there more information on pe+ somewhere?

Actually, maybe you right not to have it, isn't +pe one of those infixs we don't know much about? In any case, I was once again referencing Taronyu's dictionary but I've seen it elsewhere (but can't remember where).

"Language" doesn't seem to be in the LearnNavi.org dictionary

lì'fya (language) came from Frommer I believe. I personally don't use the LearnNavi.org dictionary any more, Taronyu's is much more up to date.

[Nume fpi sänume]

Made a Pocketmod yesterday, made sure learnnavi.org was on there, and went to see the movie again. Lurked the exit as it ended, and gave it to the first person that said "I wonder if you can learn the language". Seems I should have brought about 5 though, a few people were interested. Thinking about making business cards to hand out

[Ftiafpi]

Made a Pocketmod yesterday, made sure learnnavi.org was on there, and went to see the movie again. Lurked the exit as it ended, and gave it to the first person that said "I wonder if you can learn the language". Seems I should have brought about 5 though, a few people were interested. Thinking about making business cards to hand out

BEST!
IDEA!
EVER!

(and by ever I mean since I decided to have Chinese food for lunch )

Seriously though, that was nice thinking there. I will totally do this next time I see Avatar (5th time...I'm starting to lose count).

[Erimeyz]

Made a Pocketmod yesterday, made sure learnnavi.org was on there, and went to see the movie again. Lurked the exit as it ended, and gave it to the first person that said "I wonder if you can learn the language". Seems I should have brought about 5 though, a few people were interested. Thinking about making business cards to hand out

Genius!  Sheer genius!

[Erimeyz]

Perhaps MidnightLightning could make a "propaganda" version - something to hand out to interested people, as opposed to a reference for those already studying the language.  I'd suggest a few changes for that purpose:

* Add a pointer to learnnavi.org
* Add a vocab panel with some useful/interesting nouns and verbs and maybe even adjectives; put this facing the pronunciation panel
* Add more useful phrases
* Don't use the word "enclitic".  Maybe reword as "Adpositions can go either before or after the noun."  Or better yet, have a "Word Order" section (see below).
* Change "Verbs" to "Verb Modifiers"
* Change the "People affected by" example to "(tarontu = the hunted)" - parallel is good, plus it saves space!
* Give an example for "ke" showing it's a word and not a prefix
* Change "Nouns" to "Noun Modifiers"
* Move Accusative and Ergative to the top of the list
* Use "(Oel taron fpxafawti. = He hunts the medusa.)" as the Accusative/Ergative sentence example - poanl requires synthesis of three concepts, oel only requires two
* Move Dative to after Accusative and Ergative
* Explain Dative: "(recipient)"
* Move Genitive to after Dative
* Fix the spelling of "Genitive"
* Provide a combined example for Dative and Genitive - maybe "We teach the words of the Na'vi to you." - use the same word order as English
* Add a line "No modifier for subjects without objects (Oe tul. = I run.)"  Add it after the Dative/Genitive example.
* Explain Topic Marker differently, give two examples: "Topic marker: -ri (about, as for; replaces other markers: Oeri neu wutsoti. = Me, I want dinner.  Oel neu wutsori. = Dinner, I want it.)
* Give examples for -an, -é, me+, ay+, and le-
* Add something about rr being trilled
* Make a small section about word order:
** "Subjects/verbs/objects can go in any order"
** "Posessives can go before or after the possesed"
** "Adpositions can go before or after the noun"
** "Adjectives can go before or after the noun; add -a or a- on the side closest to the noun (soma wutso = wutso asom = hot meal)"

I think these suggestions will help a complete and utter newbie feel like they could learn and understand the language... and thus hopefully join the fun!

BTW - have I said how much the Pocketmode Guide rocks?  No?  I haven't?  Well then... it TOTALLY rocks!  It rocks the awesome and back again!  I'm really, really impressed with the work MidnightLightning has done here.  I use pocketmods myself, and love the format/layout/design/content that ML has put together.  Kudos!

  - Eri

[Nume fpi sänume]

Yes, perhaps a more "propaganda" style one would work better. Even a little leaflet style one to save on paper. It would be awesome if we could get a small book (very small) together of useful basic stuff to hand out at Cons and such that I'm sure some of us will be attending. It could be our own "Little Red Book", only we could call it the "Little Blue Book". We need an active member that works somewhere that could donate us small book printing

[Ftiafpi]

Yes, perhaps a more "propaganda" style one would work better. Even a little leaflet style one to save on paper. It would be awesome if we could get a small book (very small) together of useful basic stuff to hand out at Cons and such that I'm sure some of us will be attending. It could be our own "Little Red Book", only we could call it the "Little Blue Book". We need an active member that works somewhere that could donate us small book printing

Agreed on all points!

[Erimeyz]

If we had a knock-em-dead top-quality Little Blue Book (and I personally really like the pocketmod concept, but maybe that's just me), I would absolutely print a stack of them and take them with me to conventions.  Just this afternoon I was thinking about it:

* Take the pdf to Kinko's
* Have them print a hundred, in color, on good quality paper - that's what, maybe ten bucks?
* Have them make the edge crop cuts - they can do the whole stack at once for about a dollar per cut, so that's four bucks
* Use their straight-edge, x-acto knive, and cutting mat - Kinko's has these as well, and they'll let you use them for free
* Make the center cut x100 -  lots of work, bring friends
* Fold up the pocketmods x100 - lots of work, bring friends
* Go to a convention
* Leave some on the flyer table
* Go to some Avatar panels (and you just KNOW there's going to be Avatar panels at cons from here on out)
* Hand them out to anyone who shows a glimmer of interest

You can identify those that might be interested by saying "Kaltxì! Oel ngati kameie!" to random passers-by.  If they give you That Look and keep on walking, let 'em go.  But if they give you That Other Look and smile and pause, shove a Blue Book in their hands.

Wearing an Avatar t-shirt would help.  Wearing a Learn Na'vi shirt would be even better.  Being dressed as a loincloth-wearing blue-skinned Na'vi probably will NOT help, unless you happen to look like Zoe Saldana.

[MidnightLightning]

Perhaps MidnightLightning could make a "propaganda" version - something to hand out to interested people, as opposed to a reference for those already studying the language.  I'd suggest a few changes for that purpose:

Whoa, lots of good ideas; I'll work on incorporating some of those into the current style tomorrow.

Regarding a "propaganda" piece, I was thinking of this original pocketmod format (and the content it currently has) would be useful for convention-goers who know Na'vi or are learning, but wouldn't have a laptop with them on the convention floor if they forget which of ay+ and me+ is plural vs dual. Something simpler as a "pick this up and start speaking Na'vi in 30 seconds" would be more useful as a propaganda piece. I'm thinking that it might work out to do something like a "mad libs" sort of layout that could expand "Useful Phrases" into a mix-and-match sort of arrangement. And tailoring them to conversations that might happen in a cosplay/convention setting wouldn't hurt either.

For example, have a column of fragments like "I like your <NOUN>", "Do you have a <NOUN>", "Have you seen my <NOUN>", "Look at that <NOUN>", followed by a slew of nouns, already with an accusative suffix added (or a reminder to add one to whatever noun you pick). (In other words, sentences missing an accusative noun, and how to fill them in; relatively easy for starting out)

Another easy set would be "I <VERB>ed yesterday.", "I have <VERB>ed", "Have you ever <VERB>ed?" (all perfective-conjugated verbs), "I can <VERB>.", "I love to <VERB>", "You should <VERB>" (all present-conjugated verbs), etc. (just drop in one of the already-conjugated verbs to make a complete sentence).

If we could come up with a set of "add one noun" and "add one verb" sentence fragments, those would likely be the easiest for a total newcomer to just pick up and start speaking. Anyone have suggestions beyond what I laid out above there?

The 'propaganda' version would also need a "pronunciation guide" as well...

[Erimeyz]

Brilliant!  BRILLIANT!

We've got, what, three sets of facing pages?  Maybe something like this:

p1: Pronunciation.

p2: Useful phrases.  "Hello", "I See you", "I apologize for this moron", etc.

p3: Fill In The Object.  Top half: sentences like "I like your <NOUN>", "Hand me that <NOUN>", "We will look for <NOUN>", etc.  Bottom half: pre-declined accusative nouns.

p4: Fill In The Subject (non-transitive).  Top half: "This <NOUN> is too much."  "My <NOUN> broke."  "<NAME> is late again." "<NAME/NOUN> went over there." etc.  Bottom half: non-declined nouns.

p5: Fill In The Verb (present)

p6: Fill In The Verb (perfective)

Bottom of p6: "Future tense: Change ol to ay (tolaron -> tayaron)"

Back page: Top half: List of adpositions, "Put after nouns from page 1" (that way we don't have to teach them lenition, and they don't have to get it wrong).  Bottom half: more useful phrases?

Maybe the bottom half of p3/4 has the words spread across both pages, with each word given once in English followed by both the un-declined and declined versions: "Nose: ontu, ontuti; Tree: utral, utralit", with the top of each page saying "Use the first word (ex: ontu)" or "Use the second word (ex: ontuti)".  Same thing with the verbs on p5/6.  Might save space - you don't have to say the English twice.  Plus it makes it more obvious what's happening with the grammar.

Dunno, just thinking out loud here.  Love the idea!  Maybe someday we'll have enough vocabulary to say things like "backpack" and "badge" and "hotel".

[Erimeyz]

Sorry, I can't stop thinking about this!

Don't actually say "<NOUN>", just make a blank line: _______

At the top of p3, say "Nouns: use the first word (ex: ontu).  Names: use the name, drop 'my', 'your', 'this', etc."

At the top of p4, say "Nouns: use the second word (ex: ontuti).  Names: use the name + -ti or -it, drop 'my', 'this', etc."

In the sentences, don't say "The", "An", etc.  "Hand me _____", not "Hand me the ______".  At the bottom of p3, say "Na'vi does not use 'the', 'a', or 'an'."

You've infected me with your idea!