Na'vi for Garmin GPS

[Puvomun]

Hi all,

Since it came out, I use the Na'vi translation for directions on my GPS, my satNa'vi. Since the first incarnation, many words have been added to the language, and I have noticed that many expressions used in the original by Taronyu can be improved.

I have started to change a number of the expressions, and I would appreciate some feedback on what I have made of them. Once this is in order, I shall try to make a new version of the Na'vi directions (I already have the Garmin software for it).

Here are the words needed/listed. The originals that I have changed are in parenthesis and called "old":

recalculating - fya'ot rerun nìmun
traffic ahead - fongueo
continue on route - salew   (old: seralew)
then - tsar
arrive at - pähem ro
destination - tìkan
via point - ìlä kamtseng
board ferry - kä sìn uranit (go onto boat)  (old: shah-tellit fpxäkim)
enter roundabout - fpxäkìm musìna tsengit
exit - tìhum
left - ftär
right - skien
keep - 'erì'awn
make a u-turn - mìn lahea fya'o
navigate off road - kämakto luke fya'o
take sliproad - Sop fa fya'otsyìp
ahead - eo fìtseng
turn left - mìn ftär
turn right - mìn skien
arriving at - pate ro
on left - mì ftära pa'o
on right - mì skiena pa'o
leave ferry - txìng uranit       (old: txìng shah-tellit)
at roundabout - ro musìna tsengit
exit roundabout - txìng musìna tsengit
navigate on road - makto sìn fya'o
turn - mìn
proceed to highlighted route - salew ne tsafya'ori
1 - 'aw
2 - mune
3 - pxey
4 - tsìng
5 - mrr
6 - pukap
7 - kinä
8 - vol
9 - vol'aw        (old: nayn)
10 - volmun       (old: 'aw kew)
in - mì
hundred - zam
feet - ayvenu
yards -  ayvul
meters - pun
a quarter of a mile - 'it fya'oä
half a mile - mawl fya'oä
three quarters of a mile - hìma fya'o
mile - apxa fya'o
and a quarter - sì ngima fya'o
miles - apxa ayfya'o
and a half - sì mawl       (old: sì apxa 'it fya'oä)
and three quarters - sì hìma fya'o
kilometre - mevozama pxun
kilometres - mevozama pun
to destination - ne tìkan
to via point - ne tìkan ìlä kamtseng
take - ftxey
1st - 'awve
2nd - muve
3rd - pxeyve
4th - tsìve
5th - mrrve
6th - puve
7th - kive
8th - polve       (old: 'eytve)
9th - pol'awve      (old: naynve)

[Tirea Aean]

volaw, volavwe, vomuve

as for the rest, I will come back later and examine further. from a quick scan, seems legit.

I was hoping someone would bring this up

[Blue Elf]

10 = vomun
then = tsakrr
board ferry - kä sìn uranit (go onto boat)
proceed to highlighted route - salew ne tsafya'ori

Good idea to rerecord it. And if someone can create voice for Nokia phones (Ovi software), I definitely install it (I don't have Garmin... )

[Puvomun]

Tam. I had also caught the vomun, and I made the changes menga suggested so far.

I can't find any software for Nokia to do this...

[omängum fra'uti]

exit - tìhum

Is this a command or a destination?  If it's a command, "hum ta fya'o" would work better.

leave ferry - txìng uranit       (old: txìng shah-tellit)

I think "hum ta uranit" would work better; txìng means to leave something behind, e.g. if you were taking something with you.  While an argument could be made that you were doing that as well, it's not the main intent.

at roundabout - ro musìna tsengit

exit roundabout - txìng musìna tsengit

Same comment on txìng vs. hum as above.

hundred - zam

If you're going to say 9 is volaw and 10 is vomun then 100 is zamtsìvosìng.

On another topic, do you have the actual recording part handled ok?

[Tirea Aean]

Hum ftu ___ . Kefyak?

[Blue Elf]

Hum ftu ___ . Kefyak?

and without case ending

If you're going to say 9 is volaw and 10 is vomun then 100 is zamtsìvosìng.

Srane, but 100 here is used more as 0100 (octal), what is optically nearly the same, but "zam" is shorter - and probably better understandable. I'd probably leave it as is - but final decision is on Puvomun

[Tirea Aean]

sure. It's just that when you hear zam, you will have to know that it means one hundred instead of sixtyfour(which is what it is REALLY supposed to mean in reality)

imo that's confusing. ALso, IMO, all measuments should be in powers of 8 instead of 10 to begin with. ie imo it should be that zam really does mean 0100 which is sixtyfour dec. and intsead of reporting things at 10 miles until X, report it as eight miles until X (when you really are eight miles away from X)

O__O *confuses self*

[Blue Elf]

All you said is true without doubts.... Use this navigation carefully and at your own risk only

[`Eylan Ayfalulukanä]

Based on many hours of using this voice, I would seriously consider leaving the 'compromises' to support decimal numbers in place. While driving is not a good time to be doing base conversions. Plus, the devices think in decimal. If you wanted, you could create two versions of the voice-- one with 'proper' Na'vi numbers, and one with 'proper' decimal numbers.

We have proper names now for many of the fractional miles, most importantly 1/4 and 1/2. You already have (I think) 1/2, but not 1/4. K. Pawl devotes part of a blog post to explaining how this works.

And ma Omängum Fra'uti (good to see you active again!), 'exit' means 'take the exit', so your suggestion is one to be considered. tìhum is not a legal word, anyway.

As paer a discussion long ago about mìn, as used here, it is incorrect. mìn means 'rotate on an axis' like a wheel or a shaft. There is not currently a word for 'turn' in the sense we do this in a vehicle. The consensus at the time is that kä was a closer match for this, especially in the contest being used in a satnav.

I'm glad you are doing this. With all due respect to Skxawng Makto for his original work, it has been on my list for a long time to update this satnav voice. I have the software, and access to professional recording equipment to 'do it right'. My biggest problem is a perennial shortage of time! (And I will probably still do it, when I can find the time.)

[Puvomun]

exit - tìhum

Is this a command or a destination?  If it's a command, "hum ta fya'o" would work better.

This is a 'command'. Leave the roundabout, leave the road, etc.

leave ferry - txìng uranit       (old: txìng shah-tellit)

I think "hum ta uranit" would work better; txìng means to leave something behind, e.g. if you were taking something with you.  While an argument could be made that you were doing that as well, it's not the main intent.

hundred - zam

If you're going to say 9 is volaw and 10 is vomun then 100 is zamtsìvosìng.

I recall that this all originally was put together very early, so some things have been 'improvised' - I do know that Taronyu conferred with K.Pawl about the words to use, but Na'vi has evolved, so we can improve it now.

On another topic, do you have the actual recording part handled ok?

Yes, I have the Garmin program called Voice Studio (or something like that). I can (re-)record each bit of text separately, edit it (cut off excess lead-in and lead-out time/silence) etc. And the program generates the voice-file (.vpm) onto the Garmin device which I can then pull from it and distribute.

If you're going to say 9 is volaw and 10 is vomun then 100 is zamtsìvosìng.

Srane, but 100 here is used more as 0100 (octal), what is optically nearly the same, but "zam" is shorter - and probably better understandable. I'd probably leave it as is - but final decision is on Puvomun

I'd say to have all agree on something and use that.

Based on many hours of using this voice, I would seriously consider leaving the 'compromises' to support decimal numbers in place. While driving is not a good time to be doing base conversions. Plus, the devices think in decimal. If you wanted, you could create two versions of the voice-- one with 'proper' Na'vi numbers, and one with 'proper' decimal numbers.

That would not be hard. Also, the display of the device shows the proper numbers on screen, so that will help as well.

We have proper names now for many of the fractional miles, most importantly 1/4 and 1/2. You already have (I think) 1/2, but not 1/4. K. Pawl devotes part of a blog post to explaining how this works.

Indeed, 1/2 is there, 1/4 is not (yet).

I'm glad you are doing this. With all due respect to Skxawng Makto for his original work, it has been on my list for a long time to update this satnav voice. I have the software, and access to professional recording equipment to 'do it right'. My biggest problem is a perennial shortage of time! (And I will probably still do it, when I can find the time.)

You lack time? Amazing. You must be the only one.

[omängum fra'uti]

About the octal vs. decimal number thing...  If it composes the numbers into a distance reading, leaving the "compromise" in is probably the only way to go; to do Na'vi numbers right, the device would need to know it was doing octal numbers, not decimal, which I somehow doubt it actually does.

[Puvomun]

About the octal vs. decimal number thing...  If it composes the numbers into a distance reading, leaving the "compromise" in is probably the only way to go; to do Na'vi numbers right, the device would need to know it was doing octal numbers, not decimal, which I somehow doubt it actually does.

Good point.

[Puvomun]

Okay then. I dug this one up again. I reworked the set of words one more time and slapping the thing here. I'd very much appreciate a few careful eyes making sure that necessary -it/-ti suffixes are where they belong. If this list is complete/correct, I want to see that I get this done.

Please, some extra attention to 8 (vol) and 8th (volve). The original file uses 'eyt and 'eytve, which would be best? I'd prefer vol, as that is the actual 8 in Na'vi (dictionary: vol: [vol] P F num. eight), but as I (hopefully) won't be the only one using it, I'm asking here. (Democratic weak moment. )

recalculating - fya'ot rerun nìmun
traffic ahead - fongueo
continue on route - salew (salew mì fya'o ??)
then - tsakrr
arrive at - pähem ro
destination - tìkan
via point - ìlä kamtseng
board ferry - kä sìn uran
enter roundabout - fpxäkìm musìna tsengit
exit - hum ta
left - ftär
right - skien
keep - 'erì'awn
make a u-turn - mìn lahea fya'o
navigate off road - kämakto luke fya'o
take sliproad - sop fa fya'otsyìp
ahead - eo fìtseng
turn left - mìn ftär
turn right - mìn skien
arriving at - pate ro
on left - mì ftära pa'o
on right - mì skiena pa'o
leave ferry - hum ta uranit
at roundabout - ro musìna tsengit
exit roundabout - hum ta musìna tsengit
navigate on road - makto sìn fya'o
turn - mìn
proceed to highlighted route - salew ne tsafya'o
1 - 'aw
2 - mune
3 - pxey
4 - tsìng
5 - mrr
6 - pukap
7 - kinä
8 - vol
9 - nayn)
10 - 'aw kew
in - mì
hundred - zam
feet - ayvenu
yards -  ayvul
meters - pun
a quarter of a mile - tsìpxì fya'oä
half a mile - mawl fya'oä
three quarters of a mile - hìma fya'o
mile - apxa fya'o
and a quarter - sì tsìpxì fya'o
miles - apxa ayfya'o
and a half - sì mawl
and three quarters - sì pxeya tsìpxì
kilometre - mevozama pxun
kilometres - mevozama pun
to destination - ne tìkan
to via point - ne tìkan ìlä kamtseng
take - ftxey
1st - 'awve
2nd - muve
3rd - pxeyve
4th - tsìve
5th - mrrve
6th - puve
7th - kive
8th - volve
9th - naynve

[Blue Elf]

Ok, some proposals - maybe improvements:
traffic ahead - fongueo: sounds like "before groups"; for me fongu eo nga is bettter ("groups before you")
via point - ìlä kamtseng: "via center"; ìlä seng - "via place"
board ferry - kä sìn uran: sop/kä fa uran - "travel/go by boat"
exit - hum ta ftu: "ta" is about origin, "ftu" is about movement
ahead - eo fìtseng: what about eo nga?
leave ferry - hum ta uranit: hum ftu uran/txìng uranit
exit roundabout - hum ta txìng musìna tsengit

numbers: if you replaced "eyt" by vol (I prefer it too), you should do the same with "nayn" -> volaw. And why "'aw kew" and not "vomun"?

miles: "fya'o" is IMHO not good - "tsìpxì fya'oä" sounds like quarter of your complete journey....
What about "apxa vul" for mile and "apxa pxun" for kilometer?

9-th: same as above - volawve

[Puvomun]

Ok, some proposals - maybe improvements:
traffic ahead - fongueo: sounds like "before groups"; for me fongu eo nga is bettter ("groups before you")
via point - ìlä kamtseng: "via center"; ìlä seng - "via place"
board ferry - kä sìn uran: sop/kä fa uran - "travel/go by boat"
exit - hum ta ftu: "ta" is about origin, "ftu" is about movement
ahead - eo fìtseng: what about eo nga?
leave ferry - hum ta uranit: hum ftu uran/txìng uranit
exit roundabout - hum ta txìng musìna tsengit

numbers: if you replaced "eyt" by vol (I prefer it too), you should do the same with "nayn" -> volaw. And why "'aw kew" and not "vomun"?

miles: "fya'o" is IMHO not good - "tsìpxì fya'oä" sounds like quarter of your complete journey....
What about "apxa vul" for mile and "apxa pxun" for kilometer?

9-th: same as above - volawve

Thank you. On 'eyt and nayn - this is used in the original file, and further up/down in the comments someone stated that this was preferred as otherwise things in octal would not always make sense.
The fya'o for miles was decided on by Dr. Frommer together with Taronyu as Taronyu spoke the first version of the satNa'vi, as we lack proper words for that, long ago.

[Blue Elf]

Thank you. On 'eyt and nayn - this is used in the original file, and further up/down in the comments someone stated that this was preferred as otherwise things in octal would not always make sense.
The fya'o for miles was decided on by Dr. Frommer together with Taronyu as Taronyu spoke the first version of the satNa'vi, as we lack proper words for that, long ago.

Ok, but then "fya'o" probably shouldn't be used in other meanings (like in "make a u-turn - mìn lahea fya'o"); it would be confusing

[Puvomun]

Thank you. On 'eyt and nayn - this is used in the original file, and further up/down in the comments someone stated that this was preferred as otherwise things in octal would not always make sense.
The fya'o for miles was decided on by Dr. Frommer together with Taronyu as Taronyu spoke the first version of the satNa'vi, as we lack proper words for that, long ago.

Ok, but then "fya'o" probably shouldn't be used in other meanings (like in "make a u-turn - mìn lahea fya'o"); it would be confusing

I agree. Hmmm, I have Dr Frommer's e-mail address, I could send him a mail about the idea of apxa vul for mile. (Not sure if he would respond, but...)

How about mìn pxaw for "make a u-turn"? (Turn around.) Or kä ne'ìm? (Go back)

I think I'll adopt 'sop fa uran' for board ferry, sounds good. As does 'eo nga' instead of 'eo fìtseng'

More takers on changes?

[Blue Elf]

How about mìn pxaw for "make a u-turn"? (Turn around.) Or kä ne'ìm? (Go back)

pxaw is adposition, so with "mìn pxaw" there is missing final part of statement (rotate about <what thing>), so I'd prefer kä ne'ìm (meaning is fine)

[Puvomun]

so I'd prefer kä ne'ìm (meaning is fine)

Okay, changed that.
Hey, how about this for mile. For kilometre they thought up "pxun" (arm). If for mile we could use "kinam" (leg)... Legs usually are longer than arms, although not that much.

Tempted to put that in an e-mail to Dr. Frommer, and include the list of stuff we have now. I do want to run this by him, as it theoretically can be used all over the world, so it should be approved by him.