Na'vi learning materials in Chinese

[Irtaviš Ačankif]

Update: Re-done in LaTeX!

There is a VERY notable lack of learning materials in Chinese. And a VERY notable lack of Chinese Na'vi learners because of that and the fact that most Chinese people have terrible English.

Without further ado, I'm announcing my WIP project to translate Na'vi learning materials to Chinese. I'm now working on Na'vi in a Nutshell and will also do the dictionaries and if possible create some content myself.

If any of you know any Chinese, then maybe you can help a bit  

Anyway, the current version is at http://devkelku.tk/?i=4f95176b5b937

Please note that it is very far from complete - look at my sig!

[Tirea Aean]

Unfortunately, I know no Chinese...

But that said, I completely support this movement under the condition that the Chinese versions reflect the meaning of the English counterparts as much as is humanly possible, which goes without saying.

[Irtaviš Ačankif]

To put the peril of the Tsaynisì in perspective:

1. The last post by a Chinese member (excluding me) on LN was in August, and it was in English.
2. The last three posts on the Chinese subforum are spam.
3. The "Na'vi language" subforum on Baidu Forum has its last post dated July 2010.
4. The only self-proclaimed Chinese Na'vi karyu on QQ has very bad Na'vi and even uses things like ngayä
5. Chinese AVATAR fans regard the ASG as authoritative
6. 95% of all posts related to the Na'vi language in the "Avatar" Baidu subforum talk about "where can I get learning resources" and never get answered
7. 80% of all Chinese AVATAR fans cannot understand English further than the Latin alphabet and require full dubbing-over of AVATAR to watch it.


In the Chinese dub, the translators more RE-INTERPRETED the story than translated it. The Na'vi are polytheistic, Toruks appear to people like angels, and morons are called "sgaah". Anybody who can match up all of these translated-back lines with the original English gets a karma cookie (seriously):

No, no, I'm not talking about some Greek gods, I'm referring to real, tangible, gods of the forest. - "Gulayszz Awkooszzting"
This is the place where we pray to our gods. Usually something happens afterwards. - "Neydeelee"
Yeah, it sure looks like a shadow. - "Jeeyeyk"
So why would Toruk appear to me at this moment? But that was just my hunch - "Jeeyeyk"
There are ten-to-the-fourteen connections to the trees around one tree, and there are ten-to-the-twenty-first trees on Pandwohlah. - "Gulayszz Awkooszzting"

[Kamean]

Unfortunately, I know no Chinese...

But that said, I completely support this movement under the condition that the Chinese versions reflect the meaning of the English counterparts as much as is humanly possible, which goes without saying.

I know no Chinese too, but I'm happy that now in China everyone can learn right  Na'vi rules.

[Ikran Ahiyìk]

To put the peril of the Tsaynisì in perspective:

1. The last post by a Chinese member (excluding me) on LN was in August, and it was in English.
2. The last three posts on the Chinese subforum are spam.
3. The "Na'vi language" subforum on Baidu Forum has its last post dated July 2010.
4. The only self-proclaimed Chinese Na'vi karyu on QQ has very bad Na'vi and even uses things like ngayä
5. Chinese AVATAR fans regard the ASG as authoritative
6. 95% of all posts related to the Na'vi language in the "Avatar" Baidu subforum talk about "where can I get learning resources" and never get answered
7. 80% of all Chinese AVATAR fans cannot understand English further than the Latin alphabet and require full dubbing-over of AVATAR to watch it.


In the Chinese dub, the translators more RE-INTERPRETED the story than translated it. The Na'vi are polytheistic, Toruks appear to people like angels, and morons are called "sgaah". Anybody who can match up all of these translated-back lines with the original English gets a karma cookie (seriously):

No, no, I'm not talking about some Greek gods, I'm referring to real, tangible, gods of the forest. - "Gulayszz Awkooszzting"
This is the place where we pray to our gods. Usually something happens afterwards. - "Neydeelee"
Yeah, it sure looks like a shadow. - "Jeeyeyk"
So why would Toruk appear to me at this moment? But that was just my hunch - "Jeeyeyk"
There are ten-to-the-fourteen connections to the trees around one tree, and there are ten-to-the-twenty-first trees on Pandwohlah. - "Gulayszz Awkooszzting"

No, I'm not talking about something pagan.. voodoo here, I'm talking about something real, something measurable in the biology of the forest. - Grace Augustine
This is the place for prayers to be heard. And sometimes answered. - Neytiri
Yeah, the last you've seen. - Jake
So why would he ever look up? That's just my theory. - Jake
There are ten to the fourth of connections with the tree next to, and there are ten to the twelve of trees on Pandora! - Grace Augustine

Referred to my memory only. Something maybe wrong especially the third line..
I have made my version of subtitles entirely ... more than a year ago.
Up to now I still can't get some good chances to sit down and watch it again..


"Regard the ASG as authoritative" appears even on AvatarForums.. or I should say, the site we're in may be the ONLY one with vast majority of members really knows what's the language going on.
I've read your translation.. if the situation is really as what you said, the document should be very helpful.
Some statements of the 7 shocks me. I'm Chinese too but I wasn't born or live in Mainland, I'm not familiar with this environment..
You can replace that "tutor". I'm sure you are far more better than me in English. The only problem is that is there any learn(er/ing seeker) still...

You may translate this also
http://www.learnnavi.org/docs/Linguistic-terminology-crash-course.pdf
as Chinese is also taking cases by order, outsiders are supposed to know nothing in cases..

[Irtaviš Ačankif]

I actually made my own subtitles too, well kind of. The SRT timecodes and positions are not from me, but I edited a lot of typos in it, and most of all, improved the translation and ADDED NA'VI STUFF!!!


Ordinary font (for non-Na'vi dialogue)

YOU WILL NOT EXPECT THIS:

[Ikran Ahiyìk]

Oh no! We are in the same mind



Wanting those fonts

[Irtaviš Ačankif]

Did you notice the Na'vi translation for "I see you" song?

[Ikran Ahiyìk]

Yeah, this right?

Of course by comparing the number of views we know translation of this song of any kind doesn't draw people's attention, that's really sad

I have my singable version too - that number.. not even half of yours

[Irtaviš Ačankif]

Yeah, this right?

Of course by comparing the number of views we know translation of this song of any kind doesn't draw people's attention, that's really sad

I have my singable version too - that number.. not even half of yours

Can I see your version? My version has some bad Na'vi in it and I'm a bit lazy...

[Ikran Ahiyìk]

Yeah, this right?

Of course by comparing the number of views we know translation of this song of any kind doesn't draw people's attention, that's really sad

I have my singable version too - that number.. not even half of yours

Can I see your version? My version has some bad Na'vi in it and I'm a bit lazy...

Sure

Firstly don't be shocked by the wrongly-spelled Na'vi - you will know everything after reading the sheet too.

[Irtaviš Ačankif]

haha, fì'u nì'it "butchered" lu.

Oeyä version singable lu kop.

Fìtsengit tok oeyä version alu correct nì'ul:

Ngat kame...
ngat kame...
Tengkrr tìran mì unil,
ngat kame.
Atan mì ton ngop tìsìlpey letìrey!
Set oe ruyereiey fa nga,
'ieia.
Sìlpey a fìunil kawkrr 'i'a!
Oet kame fa nga
tìran kxamlä oeyä tìrey!
Ngeyä tìrey lu fya'o Eywayä,
tìng oeyä tìrey,
sì oeyä tìyawn ngaru!
Tengkrr txe'lan ke piak lu
ulte vitra ke lu rusey.
Fte kifkey ngal oeti wìntxu
slä menari ke lu ke'aw.
Lu opin tìreyä ulte tìyawnä frakrr
frakrr...
Oet kame fa nga,
tswusayon...
Ngeyä tìrey lu fya'o Eywayä,
tìng oeyä tìrey oe ngaru,
rey fa ngeyä tìyawn
ngat kame...
ngat kame...

NOTE: This is only singable to the movie credits edited version, NOT the OST version.

[Ikran Ahiyìk]

butchered

[Tirea Aean]

afaik none of the current versions of the translations of this song are {100% grammatical AND singable}.

Nice subs.

[Irtaviš Ačankif]

Mine IMO is grammatical and singable, though it loses lots of meaning...

[Ikran Ahiyìk]

Then it's up to you for what is 100% singable..

Grammatical. I think it's unnecessary to be fully grammatical, as many grammar rules marked "except poetry", it's enough when the listener can almost understand the meaning.
If you really want to include everything, in most cases the lyrics won't fit the song. As you know Na'vi words have lots of syllable usually.
So simply translate the lyrics without referring to the song leads to failure - I can see you have tried to avoid doing this and you are successful. Marking this kind of translation in the film ending is awesome.
Unless you are composing the voice with an existing poem, there will seldom be a set of lyrics fully grammatical..

Singable. So this is just -able. If there are enough notes for all words of the translation to be sung out, this can be called singable (IMO of course.. and obviously I'm not standing with TA..)
But one thing I believe is that singable is the basic level - translations can be called a song translation only if it is singable, otherwise song LYRICS translation only.
Besides singable or not, you have to consider whether it fits the melody or not also. A certain syllable will crash with certain pitches, as you know..

Losing some meanings is usual, we still don't have enough vocabulary.

[Irtaviš Ačankif]

You didn't lose too much meaning though...though it was epicly contracted.  Mine was pretty much made of full words, but loses TONS of meaning, like dropping subjects. If you can't see it, here is it tranlated back into English

You are seen
You are seen
While walking in a dream
you are seen
Light in night makes hope of life
Now I live through you
losing myself
Hope that this dream never ends
I am seen by means of you
walking through my life
Your life is the path of Eywa
giving my life
and my love of you
My heart is not clear
and my soul is not alive
So that you show me the world
but my eyes are not not one
There is the colors of life and of life forever
forever
I'm seen by means of you
flying...
Your life is the path of Eywa
give my life to you
live through your love
You are seen...
you are seen...

['Oma Tirea]

A little suggestion for the Chinese NiaN phonetics page (would also work great for all foreign languages): come up with an example word that uses a Na'vi phoneme in your native tongue.  If I'm not mistaken, ä, ì, px, kx, tx, ew, ll, rr, ', (common for a lot of languages), as well as v, z, h, flapped r, as well as a pure o, are lacking in Chinese.  That's about half of all Na'vi sounds.

[Irtaviš Ačankif]

Chinese does have v, z, and h.

It doesn't have a proper ng (except a very light one in allophony with vowel nasalization), a proper Na'vi t (it is either slightly voiced or super-aspirated), or a proper k (same problem as g). It does have quite a few weird sounds with tons of allophonic symbols though.

The only Chinese vowel that is pure is [a]; others are dipthongized ([oʊ], [ji], [wu], [jʏ]). Except in words ending in -n, the only allowed Chinese consonant follows the CV form or CVV form. Therefore, sample words would be useless, as the biggest problem for Chinese speakers is to pronounce word-final consonants without adding a schwa after them.

['Oma Tirea]

Chinese does have v, z, and h.

Those are probably the non-native Chinese phonemes (hìtxoa if I'm wrong again, never really studied the language), and I thought h was [x] in Chinese and not [h] like in Na'vi.

It doesn't have a proper ng (except a very light one in allophony with vowel nasalization), a proper Na'vi t (it is either slightly voiced or super-aspirated), or a proper k (same problem as g). It does have quite a few weird sounds with tons of allophonic symbols though.

I thought that Chinese (Pinyin) b, d, g = Na'vi p, t, k, or at least close enough....

The only Chinese vowel that is pure is [a]; others are dipthongized ([oʊ], [ji], [wu], [jʏ]). Except in words ending in -n, the only allowed Chinese consonant follows the CV form or CVV form. Therefore, sample words would be useless, as the biggest problem for Chinese speakers is to pronounce word-final consonants without adding a schwa after them.

True.  Luckily, Na'vi allows for only one consonant codas.  Consonant clusters may be an issue as well.  Some of the consonant clusters are even unusual for speakers of other languages (N.K. fk-).  Maybe you could find some words that don't rely too heavily on consonant clusters or codas for beginners.