Author Topic: Can we make the Na'vi article better?  (Read 1357 times)

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Offline Tsmuktengan

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Can we make the Na'vi article better?
« on: December 26, 2012, 09:27:43 pm »
I am wondering since some time how the article about the Na'vi language can be sensibly improved, in order to be part of the most well written ones in the encyclopedia.

Think about it, we now have more documentation, sources, and even studies and surveys, even if they are very few, there are some.

I have some experience in editing Wikipedia according to the rules and guidelines of the encyclopedia. I would like to help making this article more noticeable, and thus encouraging its translation to also be noticed in other languages than English.

What do you think?

Have a look at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Na%27vi_language


Offline Tirea Aean

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Re: Can we make the Na'vi article better?
« Reply #1 on: December 26, 2012, 11:43:26 pm »
I support this. Make the article better? Why not?

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Offline Tsmuktengan

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Re: Can we make the Na'vi article better?
« Reply #2 on: December 27, 2012, 02:07:16 am »
Sitrep :
  • our language's article in the anglophone Wikipedia is classified as C-class on the quality scale for the Constructed languages WikiProject
  • The Na'vi language is considered as Mid-important, meaning it is notable and has acheived notability in a particular place or area.
  • The article is also part of the Film and Science-fiction WikiProject, but it is probably better to focus on the constructed language aspect and project as we are talking about a language and not the film itself, even if it can be used as a source of references.

Looking at all the ressources we have, and all the knowledge of the members that do practice Na'vi, it is likely that the article can achieve the Good article label, required to turn it into a featured article (which is the label for what Wikipedia has the best to offer, the top best).

With some work, it is fully acheivable.

My knowledge of Na'vi is too limited for me to do it on my own or only with one or two people only. This is why I request the help of several people who know and love the language to work on this Wikipedia article. There is a talk page where we can list what is good and what is missing/wrong/outdated/badly explained. It has to be done though, so I am awaiting answers to start working and helping.

If you do not have an account on Wikipedia, it is perhaps a good time to create one in order to have your name in the history log of that article.  ;)


Offline Vawmataw

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Re: Can we make the Na'vi article better?
« Reply #3 on: December 27, 2012, 10:42:21 am »
I am wondering since some time how the article about the Na'vi language can be sensibly improved, in order to be part of the most well written ones in the encyclopedia.

Think about it, we now have more documentation, sources, and even studies and surveys, even if they are very few, there are some.

I have some experience in editing Wikipedia according to the rules and guidelines of the encyclopedia. I would like to help making this article more noticeable, and thus encouraging its translation to also be noticed in other languages than English.

What do you think?

Have a look at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Na%27vi_language
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Offline Blue Elf

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Re: Can we make the Na'vi article better?
« Reply #4 on: December 27, 2012, 04:16:11 pm »
Improving that page is good idea. IMHO first should be cleared how that article should look like. To me it appears as first few pages from Horen by wm.annis :) Is it good or not? Should this article contain complete rules of the language?
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Offline wm.annis

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Re: Can we make the Na'vi article better?
« Reply #5 on: December 27, 2012, 05:38:13 pm »
Should this article contain complete rules of the language?

It should not.  No natural language gets that treatment.  The goal should be for a concise, representative but non-exhaustive summary to give a picture of the language.  That it has infixes, for example, but without explaining every single one.
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Offline Tsmuktengan

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Re: Can we make the Na'vi article better?
« Reply #6 on: December 28, 2012, 12:56:10 pm »
Should this article contain complete rules of the language?

It should not.  No natural language gets that treatment.  The goal should be for a concise, representative but non-exhaustive summary to give a picture of the language.  That it has infixes, for example, but without explaining every single one.

Exactly.

Wikipedia is an encyclopaedia, which means that we should present, in an advanced way, what is the Na'vi language concisely, but not as a tutorial. A reader should be able to understand why and how it has been created, basically how it works (eventually in comparison to other languages) and how it has evolved since its creation.

The article should be written in a way that makes it interesting for the reader, but not in a way that would make the article look like an advertisement.

As you can see on the following link (I'm using my tablet), the page is viewed by over between 250 and close to 400 people daily.
http://stats.grok.se/en/latest90/Na'vi_language

You can imitate and get inspiration from the article about the English language, which is pretty good, although there won't be as much to write about Na'vi. To help you on some points and syntax, there is also a brilliant manual of style : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Manual_of_Style

It looks like there are currently three people wanting to work on this. I'll be waiting a few days perhaps (the time for the parties to slow down and me to organize by studies in reasonable limits) before helping you directly on Wikipedia. You may want to start discussing and listing what to do on the Na'vi language's talk page without waiting me.


Offline Tsmuktengan

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Re: Can we make the Na'vi article better?
« Reply #7 on: December 29, 2012, 09:16:50 pm »
Hmm, no new reply (I hope I didn't frighten anyone).

Before really starting the work on January 2nd or 3rd, perhaps the topic should be placed in the "Na'vify the web" section, since it is about a Web project and Na'vi visibility online.


Offline `Eylan Ayfalulukanä

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Re: Can we make the Na'vi article better?
« Reply #8 on: December 30, 2012, 06:25:35 pm »
I love writing projects like this. But the big problem I have (and many other folks here as well) is lack of time to give this the attention it deserves.

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Offline Tsmuktengan

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Re: Can we make the Na'vi article better?
« Reply #9 on: December 31, 2012, 10:49:39 am »
I love writing projects like this. But the big problem I have (and many other folks here as well) is lack of time to give this the attention it deserves.


Me as well, but the most important is to plac our little contribution when we are able to, even if it does not seem a lot. You would not be alone, and the errors from me or other people you could fix would certainly help, for example. Even 5 minutes in a work day is good to do a few useful little things.


Offline Tsmuktengan

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Re: Can we make the Na'vi article better?
« Reply #10 on: January 11, 2013, 08:42:19 am »
I haven't forgotten this, but I am very busy and late on my work. Priorities you know....


Offline Tsmuktengan

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Re: Can we make the Na'vi article better?
« Reply #11 on: February 06, 2013, 11:32:02 am »
OK. Now that I have more time, and that I seem to contribute almost too much to Wikipedia again (in French though), if you are still interested in this, then we can start now.

Aside of some of the forum's topics and Na'viteri, what sources can we have to point out interesting facts about the language? Just summing up what we can use to make the content verfiable. :)

In the end, I also hope to find a way to offer some legal and reusable illustrations for this Na'vi language article. But it can't be done before the article is finished.


Offline Tirea Aean

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Re: Can we make the Na'vi article better?
« Reply #12 on: February 06, 2013, 11:36:54 am »
Well, the lowest-level source of our information is the Language Log post by Frommer, which is basically copied onto the LearnNavi website, and then emails with him which were recorded on the LN Wiki and the Language Updates board. Facts about the language can be found in many interviews with him, which many of these are linked on the LN wiki on the Corpus or on Google.

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Offline Tsmuktengan

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Re: Can we make the Na'vi article better?
« Reply #13 on: February 06, 2013, 11:45:01 am »
Well, the lowest-level source of our information is the Language Log post by Frommer, which is basically copied onto the LearnNavi website, and then emails with him which were recorded on the LN Wiki and the Language Updates board. Facts about the language can be found in many interviews with him, which many of these are linked on the LN wiki on the Corpus or on Google.

Then, by the use of all of these sources (LN Wiki + news article, language updates, recorded emails, interviews, etc.), then it fantastic. Any fact that is mentionned on Wikipedia needs to be held by a reliable source, offering the guarantee of a high quality content (which is what we want to offer).

The studies that have been done on the Na'vi language, such as the one that was done by canadian language professor Catheress can add several interesting things. Not sure if there were more studies done though.


Offline Tirea Aean

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Re: Can we make the Na'vi article better?
« Reply #14 on: February 06, 2013, 11:59:49 am »
Well, the lowest-level source of our information is the Language Log post by Frommer, which is basically copied onto the LearnNavi website, and then emails with him which were recorded on the LN Wiki and the Language Updates board. Facts about the language can be found in many interviews with him, which many of these are linked on the LN wiki on the Corpus or on Google.

Then, by the use of all of these sources (LN Wiki + news article, language updates, recorded emails, interviews, etc.), then it fantastic. Any fact that is mentionned on Wikipedia needs to be held by a reliable source, offering the guarantee of a high quality content (which is what we want to offer).

The studies that have been done on the Na'vi language, such as the one that was done by canadian language professor Catheress can add several interesting things. Not sure if there were more studies done though.

OH YEAH! The study by Dr. Schreyer. I think we should ask if we could feature some findings from that study on the Wikipedia article. That would be some very great and relevant stuff to put there.

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Offline Tsmuktengan

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Re: Can we make the Na'vi article better?
« Reply #15 on: February 06, 2013, 01:42:39 pm »
Actually, you don't need to ask : if the article is present on the net, all you have to do is to explain what she has shown and what the study tells in your own words. A reference will be displayed, allowing a reader to go and check the document itself.

The only thing you should ask permission for is for reusing a document, sentences, or images. Not the intellectual reasoning that come from it (thankfully). If you want to upload the documents from her studies, let's say, to Wikiversity or Wikisource, since you will republish part or entirely content she and/or her organisation owns, then yes, you have to ask her the permission and obtain from her she actually places her documents under a proper licence.

I am used to basic issues with licensing. And for sourcing the Na'vi article, you don't need any kind of permission. Just saying where you got the information you are writing about.  :)

You may want to look at how is written the current version of the Na'vi language article. Look for <ref></ref> or similar indications to see how references are placed and used.


 

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