Pamrelfya a'Eoio

Started by Prrton, September 02, 2010, 08:52:46 PM

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Kemaweyan

#340
Quote from: Prrton on October 20, 2010, 12:31:10 AM
This is the very strange behavior I get in Adobe Illustrator CS4.

I have one idea how to fix it. Now there is substitutions t + x → tx and s + tx → stx, but I want try to change it to s + t + x → stx.

Ma Ikran Ahiyìk, perhaps it would fix your problem too ;)
Nìrangal frapo tsirvun pivlltxe nìNa'vi :D

Ikran Ahiyìk

But not only stx now, ng becomes n and g, px becomes p and x there :-\

(Firefox is fine, but the "stable" subtitles get first problem)
Plltxe nìhiyìk na ikran... oe fmeri sìltsan nì'ul slivu, ngaytxoa...


See the new version with fingerings!
Avatar credits to O-l-i-v-i.

Tirea Aean

Quote from: Maweyatan on October 19, 2010, 10:13:29 PM
Quote from: Tirea Aean on October 19, 2010, 09:30:02 PM
Quote from: Maweyatan on October 19, 2010, 08:07:59 PM
If I'm using Tirea's keyboard layout, how would I type the octal symbol?

Well, knowing that my keyboard looks like this:

º 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 - =
kx w e r t y u i o p [ ] \
a s tx f ng h ì k l ; '
z ä ts v px n m , . /

try pressing the key that comes before 1 2 3 4...



I realize this, but for some reason, I just get the normal 'ìnglìsì letter/thingie instead. This is my Na'vi keyboard:

` 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 - =
kx w e r t y u i o p [ ] \
a s tx f ng h ì k l ; '
z ä ts v px n m , . /


P.S. I'm using a 64-bit OS, if that means anything.

You simply have my old version. 64 bit OS shouldnt mean anything. it installs to whichever windows you have. The most updated version, the one i typed out is found in the middle of the fourth page of the Txe'lanit Hivawl post in Language updates. thats basically the official direct download link. OH before you go there and install that, might i Suggest you uninstall and get fid of any traces of the current version you have...you can uninstall the layout just like a program from control panel.

Kemaweyan

Quote from: Ikran Ahiyìk on October 20, 2010, 10:36:20 AM
But not only stx now, ng becomes n and g, px becomes p and x there :-\

(Firefox is fine, but the "stable" subtitles get first problem)

I said "stx" only as example. I want change all substitutions.
Nìrangal frapo tsirvun pivlltxe nìNa'vi :D

Prrton

Quote from: Kemaweyan on October 20, 2010, 10:51:14 AM
Quote from: Ikran Ahiyìk on October 20, 2010, 10:36:20 AM
But not only stx now, ng becomes n and g, px becomes p and x there :-\

(Firefox is fine, but the "stable" subtitles get first problem)

I said "stx" only as example. I want change all substitutions.

I believe the way you've suggested you'll try it is the most standard way to encode it. s+p+x= one glyph.

   irayo !


Ikran Ahiyìk

It seems grouping the elements directly into one glyph is more stable.
Plltxe nìhiyìk na ikran... oe fmeri sìltsan nì'ul slivu, ngaytxoa...


See the new version with fingerings!
Avatar credits to O-l-i-v-i.

Kemaweyan

I hoped to make it easier ::) But now I see what there are problems in some programs, sorry...
Nìrangal frapo tsirvun pivlltxe nìNa'vi :D

Ikran Ahiyìk

Sorry for don't understanding the problems you are facing...
Just solve them as you can, etrìpa syayvi ;)


... and sorry for my words here. I find some problems in altitute but I don't know how to make them better... please don't mind my bad usage



Take a look on the number system, I have some thoughts on the digit words 8, VZ etc... Let's see is I misunderstand again..
And it's time to sleep, kìyevame..
Plltxe nìhiyìk na ikran... oe fmeri sìltsan nì'ul slivu, ngaytxoa...


See the new version with fingerings!
Avatar credits to O-l-i-v-i.

Prrton

Quote from: Ikran Ahiyìk on October 20, 2010, 04:09:20 AM

Serious...
In morden Chinese usually we use more then one word to represent one thing.
The digit word is fine in Chinese, but Na'vi... should we change the system?
Chinese number words cannot put to vertical for calculating, but these octal numbers can... For example

  °771  =  505
+°623  = +403
°1614  =   908

where °7+°2=°11, etc...

The Chinese form you mentioned is word representation, this kind of thing in Na'vi is as mevolpey for °23, in English is as four hundred and sixty-nine for 469.
You cannot put this in vertical for calculating.

     四百六十九  =    469
一千二百零  七  = +1207
     ???          =   1676

Of course we can say 一千六百七十六 for 1676 in Chinese, but it is a presentation, I never seen anyone put the Chinese word in the calculating...

Would you do this?

                         four hundred and sixty-nine  =    469
one thousand and two hundred and       seven  = +1207

KEHE!

Now we have 'aw, mune, pxey etc for word form in Na'vi, so the remaining number form is __________ ... think about ;)



(My opinions only. Hìtxoa :o)

I think your point about math is perfectly valid. I NEVER imagined anyone (ftxey Na'vi ftxey tawtute) trying to do math with the "word glyphs" for numbers. I imagine them in some remote corner of Pandora carved onto "monuments" commemorating the 3rd Toruk Makto alu _____, or on 'Rrta on a wedding invitation, but certainly not in a mathematics class. That's why I created the 'Rrtan glyphys for 0~9... for everyday practical reasons that are NOT ceremonial ('eoio, 儀式).

   ;)

This should be fine for practical everyday communication (and math):

   Oeyä holpxay spulmokriyä lu 867-5309. Rutxe syivaw nìprrte'.

This might be relevant when we have 25 years of experience under our belts like the Klingon speakers:

   °381vea Ultxa ayHaryuä a fpi Kìte'e Lì'fyayä leNa'vi


Kemaweyan

Please try this version :)
Nìrangal frapo tsirvun pivlltxe nìNa'vi :D

Prrton

Quote from: Kemaweyan on October 20, 2010, 11:45:55 AM
Please try this version :)

Latsam oer fwa frawzo!  ;D

Ke tsun oe leykiven Mäkur kea tìngäzìkit nìftue tsari alu:

 Firefox 3.6.11

 Adobe:
  - Photoshop CS5
  - Illustrator CS5
  - InDesign CS5

 iWork '09 (Apple):
  - Pages
  - Keynote

    IRAYO!!





Kemaweyan

Txantsan! Oe tsakem sasyi nìtengfya nì'ul ;)
Nìrangal frapo tsirvun pivlltxe nìNa'vi :D

Prrton

Quote from: Kemaweyan on October 20, 2010, 12:44:01 PM
Txantsan! Oe tsakem sasyi nìtengfya nì'ul ;)

Irayo nìtxantxan nìmunmun, ma Kemaweyan. Rutxe oer pänutivìng futa tsakrr a fìtìkangkemviri nga ke serulìn ki vrrìn, ftayang nga fte tsivurokx nìtam fte tsivun sivulìn nìmun nìmip. Tengkrr a kxawm krro tsatsun fìfnekem sivi nì'o', fpìl oel futa kop tsun fkor sleykivu ngeyn nìhawng nìteng. Rutxe kem sivi nì'o' nì'aw, ma oeyä Tsmukan.

    ;D

Kemaweyan

Quote from: Prrton on October 20, 2010, 03:21:11 AM
One more thing about the 'Rrtan numbers.

I had imagined that they would "hang" from the same line as the Na'vi letters.

  Fayholpxay alu 0123456789 lu fnel a ta 'Ìnglìsì.

I imagined they'd look like this (also with a bit more space between them like I and Ì)...

  Fayholpxay alu 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 lu fnel a ta 'Ìnglìsì.

Ok, what about this?

Nìrangal frapo tsirvun pivlltxe nìNa'vi :D

Prrton

Quote from: Kemaweyan on October 20, 2010, 02:00:42 PM
Quote from: Prrton on October 20, 2010, 03:21:11 AM
One more thing about the 'Rrtan numbers.

I had imagined that they would "hang" from the same line as the Na'vi letters.

  Fayholpxay alu 0123456789 lu fnel a ta 'Ìnglìsì.

I imagined they'd look like this (also with a bit more space between them like I and Ì)...

  Fayholpxay alu 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 lu fnel a ta 'Ìnglìsì.

Ok, what about this?


Lor !


Fìfya sunu oer nìltsan nì'ul. Fpìl oel futa fìtì'efu lu syo to fwa lu tsawl nì'ul sì ku'up nì'it nìhawng fa fya'o alahe. Leykolatem ngal fìtxan nìwin a fì'uri seiyi irayo nìtxan !


Kemaweyan

I just made Scale 84% and Move Y -80 ;)  8)
Nìrangal frapo tsirvun pivlltxe nìNa'vi :D

Kemaweyan

Well, now new version 1.009 is available. Changes:


  • Added all "lere'o" glyphs and substitutions
  • Changed glyphs of "hypnen" and "endash"
  • Added more punctuation symbols (ellipsis, bullet, emdash, slash)

Please tell me, if you find any problems ;)

Irayo nìtxan, ma oeyä smuktu!
Nìrangal frapo tsirvun pivlltxe nìNa'vi :D

Prrton

Quote from: Kemaweyan on October 20, 2010, 10:09:56 PM
Well, now new version 1.009 is available. Changes:


  • Added all "lere'o" glyphs and substitutions
  • Changed glyphs of "hypnen" and "endash"
  • Added more punctuation symbols (ellipsis, bullet, emdash, slash)

Please tell me, if you find any problems ;)

Irayo nìtxan, ma oeyä smuktu!

Ma Kemaweyan, wou fìtìkangkem ngeyä nìwotx !

Tsun sivar fì'uti luke tìngäzìk a tsun oe rivun. Oel fmoletok fìfontit fa faysoftìwer Mäkä alu:

  Fayerfoksì
  Ìlastìreytrr Atxopiyä
  Fotosyop Atxopiyä
  ÌnTxizayn Atxopiyä
  Peytsyìzì Äpllä
  Kinot Äpllä

Latsam oer fwa fra'u zero nì'aw.

Fì'u lu vur Txew ìyä:





Kaltxì, ma oeyä eylan! Oe piveng ayngaru nì'it teri Txew ì, alu Na'viyä 'eveng.

Txew ì lu 'evengan a solalew zìsìt avomun. Mì sray apxa kelku si soaiahu. Soaia lu hì'i – nì'aw sempul, sa'nok, tsmukan alu Loak a solalew zìsìt amevopey, sì Txew ì. Ke lu poru kea smuke.

New Txew ìl futa fyeyntu slayu a krr, po nawma taronyu sì tsamsiyu layu na sempul. Tsun Txew ì kop pivlltxe nì'it nì'Ìnglìsì a nolume mì numtseng Doktor Kìreysä. Lolu toktor Kìreysì karyu asìltsan ulte poe tsolun nìNa'vi pivlltxe, hufwa lì'upam hek nì'it. Slä ayevi nìwotx tsolun tslivam.

Poeri uniltìrantokxit tarmok a krr, lam stum nìayfo, slä lu 'a'awa tìketeng – natkenong, tsyokxìri ke lu zekwä atsìng ki amrr.

Sunu Txew ìru toktor Kìreysì. Lu poe tstunwi, ulte eviru peng eltur tìtxen si a ayvurit teri 'Rrta, alu tsenge astxong nìngay. Krr a stolawm Txew ì teri hem a poer lolen, 'olefu keftxo nìtxan.

Txew ìyä sempulìri sngä'ikrr sawtutet vere'kì. Plltxe san zola'u sawtute fìtseng fte awngati skiva'a sìk. Slä sa'nokìri fpìlfya lu keteng. Po plltxe san tì'efumì oeyä sutekip nìwotx, ftxey Na'vi ftxey Sawtute, lu sìltsan, lu kawng sìk.

Lam set fwa Sawtute akawng holum, pum asìltsan 'ì'awn, ulte Na'viru set lu nawma eyktan amip a larmu tawtute. Hu sawtute a tsam lu hasey. Sìlpey Txew ì tsnì tsivun set fko pivlltxe san frawzo.



Tsun fko tsive'a futa fìpamrelfyar lu fnetìlam sneyä. 'Efu oel futa fì'u tsranten ulte eltur tìtxen si nìteng.

Nga leiu txantsana txulayu ulte sìlronsema fayfya'ori a ngal serar fte ngivop nìfya a slu fìtxan lesar frapor, ngaru nìmun new oe siveiyi irayo!

Haya tì'ongìri a fa kanua eltu sì fnan a mesyokx ngeyä, oe pereiey nìprrte' !


______________________

Nìsung: Fte tsatstxo alu "Txew ì" fìfya pamrel sivi, zene fko kop piak sivi nì'it maw tsapam alu "Txew" fte ke slivu na "Txewì" alu ketenga mefam a pxel "Txe" sì "wì".


Ikran Ahiyìk

#358
(The ancient Chinese counting rods without place values, take a look or maybe you've seen... ;))

Quote from: Prrton on October 20, 2010, 11:36:56 AM
I think your point about math is perfectly valid. I NEVER imagined anyone (ftxey Na'vi ftxey tawtute) trying to do math with the "word glyphs" for numbers. I imagine them in some remote corner of Pandora carved onto "monuments" commemorating the 3rd Toruk Makto alu _____, or on 'Rrta on a wedding invitation, but certainly not in a mathematics class. That's why I created the 'Rrtan glyphys for 0~9... for everyday practical reasons that are NOT ceremonial ('eoio, 儀式).

  ;)

This should be fine for practical everyday communication (and math):

  Oeyä holpxay spulmokriyä lu 867-5309. Rutxe syivaw nìprrte'.

This might be relevant when we have 25 years of experience under our belts like the Klingon speakers:

  °381vea Ultxa ayHaryuä a fpi Kìte'e Lì'fyayä leNa'vi


8 and 9 is fine for phone numbers or somthing. Because there is no way to replace the 8 and 9, and actually all the numbers in there are "symbols".

But for number values, it is strange with 8...
Maybe you want to create something similar to the Roman numbers, which included place value in each letter, as in #27 you posted, for short form of those long Na'vi number words, right?
Not a problem at first, but now is, we used the octal numbers which CAN BE USED in calculating for the one CANNOT BE...
The only way to keep your idea is to use another kind of letters in typing, e.g. X=1, Y=5, A=vol, then XAY=(read as)15/vomrr and create the glyphs for these X, Y, A etc.
But you also mentioned that the one who didn't install the font will see what we actually typed. They will see the XAY and everything behind, so we should not use anything Na'vi don't have to represent something we create. This method is not so good.

Now here are the cons
From octal, without place value: Lose your idea
With place value, no calculating: Show the behinds

You have something represent kew. It's no problem for remove the place values actually.
Of course the creator is definately not me :P




p.s. math is not the point, I wanted to show the difference between your idea (°381, °283, °1Z582 etc.) and what we're typing (°10, °2, °44237 etc.). They are not the same type and I think we can't use one to represent another only by glyph chinging... :P

How if their types are same?
If we use a system like Chinese (word presentation, which also cannot do math) in typing, we can use one word for one glyph.

What we actually type /
What others see              
What we see7ZZ4VZ3ZM581
Read as (Na'vi)Kinzazamtsìvozampxeyzammrrvolaw
Read as (English)Seventy-fourthousand (and)threehundred (and)fifty-one

*In Chinese or English we don't read the non-decimal numbers as normal, but in here I treat them as decimal for explaining, otherwise no way to compare.


Although it seems I've forgotten this...

Quote from: Prrton on October 20, 2010, 03:21:11 AM
The only drawback I can see is that members of the community who don't write using EOIO and don't have it installed would need to learn to read †283 as me.vo.pey. Typing the † would also be a pain for Windows folks. (It's super easy on Mac (shift-opt.-5).) We'd also need to know what symbols could be used for zam (ZM), vozam (VZ), & zazam (ZZ). Could these trigger the glyphs if after † ?
But in my opinion 'Eoio and Latin alphabets should be interchangeable with only X changed in [ F o n t = X ]

Quote from: Kemaweyan on October 20, 2010, 10:09:56 PM
Well, now new version 1.009 is available. Changes:


  • Added all "lere'o" glyphs and substitutions
  • Changed glyphs of "hypnen" and "endash"
  • Added more punctuation symbols (ellipsis, bullet, emdash, slash)

Please tell me, if you find any problems ;)

Irayo nìtxan, ma oeyä smuktu!
I tried all the three, but same problem as yesterday :-\
Small (=<14pt) glyphs in Firefox and all in subtitles can't work... (fine in larger size, I can see the Fä sì Tsä lere'o :))
Plltxe nìhiyìk na ikran... oe fmeri sìltsan nì'ul slivu, ngaytxoa...


See the new version with fingerings!
Avatar credits to O-l-i-v-i.

Kemaweyan

Ma Prrton, irayo nìtxan. Oer meuia leiu nìngay fwa ngar suneiu fì'u. Ngian lu oer tìpawm a pelun tsaw zene livu "Txew ì"? Frakrr lamam oer fewa tsaw lu "Txewì" nìftue..

Quote from: Ikran Ahiyìk on October 21, 2010, 04:00:13 AM
I tried all the three, but same problem as yesterday :-\
Small (=<14pt) glyphs in Firefox and all in subtitles can't work... (fine in larger size, I can see the Fä sì Tsä lere'o :))

Hmm.. Please try old versions and tell me when (in which version) it stops work in subtitles?
Nìrangal frapo tsirvun pivlltxe nìNa'vi :D