Pamrelfya a'Eoio

[Tirea Aean]

Ma Prrton, irayo nìtxan. Oer meuia leiu nìngay fwa ngar suneiu fì'u. Ngian lu oer tìpawm a pelun tsaw zene livu "Txew ì"? Frakrr lamam oer fewa tsaw lu "Txewì" nìftue..

same. I thought that it was Txe-wì alu dewì instead of Tx-ew-ì alu dew ì

[Ikran Ahiyìk]

Ma Prrton, irayo nìtxan. Oer meuia leiu nìngay fwa ngar suneiu fì'u. Ngian lu oer tìpawm a pelun tsaw zene livu "Txew ì"? Frakrr lamam oer fewa tsaw lu "Txewì" nìftue..

I tried all the three, but same problem as yesterday
Small (=<14pt) glyphs in Firefox and all in subtitles can't work... (fine in larger size, I can see the Fä sì Tsä lere'o )

Hmm.. Please try old versions and tell me when (in which version) it stops work in subtitles?

Sorry... maybe, is it my problem?
Now I find the same problem even I reuse the oddest version!
I tested all the versions I downloaded before one by one, it happens in each version...

Actually is it involve settings? Where can I fix it?

[Kemaweyan]

Try clear the font cache:

• Remove the font from the system
• Find all *.lst files on system disk (C: )
• Remove all AdobeFntХ.lst, where X would be any number
• Reboot you system
• Install the font

[Ikran Ahiyìk]

Removed, but can't find any .lst files..
after reboot try to install again, still here..



I figured the words in same size is smaller then before, not the version difference.

Spoiler

Size kept be 12 for both.
The upper one was taken several days ago.

That same sentence taken few minutes ago:

Spoiler

[Kemaweyan]

Which player do you use?

[Ikran Ahiyìk]

Maybe you don't know lt...
Something from China called Xunlei








typo: is Xunlei not xinlei

[Kemaweyan]

So.. can I download it somewhere? Or that isn't free? I want to try it on my PC..

[Ikran Ahiyìk]

http://xmp.down.sandai.net/kankan/XMPSetup_3.8.2.493-www.exe


but here is a head-up
everytime after you run it, it will be changed to the default player...
and it's in simplified Chinese

[Prrton]

Ma Prrton, irayo nìtxan. Oer meuia leiu nìngay fwa ngar suneiu fì'u. Ngian lu oer tìpawm a pelun tsaw zene livu "Txew ì"? Frakrr lamam oer fewa tsaw lu "Txewì" nìftue..

same. I thought that it was Txe-wì alu dewì instead of Tx-ew-ì alu dew ì

It is VERY easy for me to be wrong on these things, so I just went back and listened to the NYT On Language (Skxawng!) example and the Listening Comprehension example(s). In the NYT I also hear "Txe.wì", but every time but once in the blog exercise I her something much more like Txew.wì. I will have to ask Paul what it is in his head. It is LIKELY to be TXE.wì based on this. Taronyu got this list directly from K. Pawl to the best of my knowledge.

But, regardless of my having gotten it wrong in this example. We clearly have words that syllabify in a way that we need a "typing solution" for these run-ins of diphthong + vowel/diphthong

 pxiswawam [p'i.swaw.ˈam] adv. Just a moment ago pxiswaw am

 pxiswaway [p'i.swaw.ˈaj] adv. In just a second from now pxiswaw ay

 Kefyak?


I really am not a good person to ask about a solution to the numbers. Numbers (in general) are not important to me personally. I have to use them for work, but I'm not a mathematician and I just don't CARE about them. I'm perfectly happy for someone else (or a group of folks) to figure out how (even IF) these glyphs get used in this system.

  °012345678

   

Spoiler

I don't think it would be that hard (or common enough to be a real problem) for people to come across things like ∞587 or °MVH and read it as 'mrr.vo.hin'. The Roman numeral approach is also interesting, but would not map directly, of course, due to the way they construct(ed) their numbers.

Personally, it is much easier for me to read:

  °787

   

Spoiler

and know that is decimal 63 (or not even THINK of it in decimal) than to read °77 (kivohin) and have to reverse calculate it to 63. That's just how my strange brain works.

Using the Na'vi "word symbols" for the numbers instead of the Arabic numerals helps me *stay* in Na'vi for everyday comprehension. Make sense?

For typing purposes ?? [special symbol + ]:

  'A
  ME
  PX
  TS
  MR
  PU
  KI
  VO

On this issue, please someone tell me. I really don't have a good idea.  

[Ikran Ahiyìk]

It is VERY easy for me to be wrong on these things, so I just went back and listened to the NYT On Language (Skxawng!) example and the Listening Comprehension example(s). In the NYT I also hear "Txe.wì", but every time but once in the blog exercise I her something much more like Txew.wì. I will have to ask Paul what it is in his head. It is LIKELY to be TXE.wì based on this. Taronyu got this list directly from K. Pawl to the best of my knowledge.

But, regardless of my having gotten it wrong in this example. We clearly have words that syllabify in a way that we need a "typing solution" for these run-ins of diphthong + vowel/diphthong

  pxiswawam [p'i.swaw.ˈam] adv. Just a moment ago pxiswaw am

  pxiswaway [p'i.swaw.ˈaj] adv. In just a second from now pxiswaw ay

  Kefyak?

The link between a/e and w/y cannot be too clear.
Ma.wey - but you still hear a bit w after the a before second syllable starts
Pxi.swaw.am/y - if you trap them too hard, it seems an extra tìftang comes out..

I really am not a good person to ask about a solution to the numbers. Numbers (in general) are not important to me personally. I have to use them for work, but I'm not a mathematician and I just don't CARE about them. I'm perfectly happy for someone else (or a group of folks) to figure out how (even IF) these glyphs get used in this system.

   °012345678

   

Spoiler

I don't think it would be that hard (or common enough to be a real problem) for people to come across things like ∞587 or °MVH and read it as 'mrr.vo.hin'. The Roman numeral approach is also interesting, but would not map directly, of course, due to the way they construct(ed) their numbers.

Personally, it is much easier for me to read:

   °787

   

Spoiler

and know that is decimal 63 (or not even THINK of it in decimal) than to read °77 (kivohin) and have to reverse calculate it to 63. That's just how my strange brain works.

Using the Na'vi "word symbols" for the numbers instead of the Arabic numerals helps me *stay* in Na'vi for everyday comprehension. Make sense?

For typing purposes ?? [special symbol + ]:

   'A
   ME
   PX
   TS
   MR
   PU
   KI
   VO

On this issue, please someone tell me. I really don't have a good idea. 

So now we heve three type of numbers:
- Na'vi word form - full form, for formal usage or normal sentance
- 'Rrtan (Arabic) numbers - mark the phone numbers etc.
- Line marks of 'Eoio - (more large) numbers marking for Na'vi (we assumed)

The three types should be come from different typing method.
- Full - just type them
- 'Rrtan - use the 0123456789 we have
- 'Eoio - ...... now discuss

I think the one you came up is very good, but something would make it easier.
It is not necessary to type the special †, simply + is ok...; under this way which SETED FOR OCTAL, no more somthing like ° for classific use.
But make use it in other way. Maybe... form group from each ["+" and letters], i.e. +__ become one glyph, +__+__ become two glyphs.

For the compounds, here is my idea:

"+" + "0" = 0
"+" + "1" = 1
"+" + "2" = 2
"+" + "3" = 3
"+" + "4" = 4
"+" + "5" = 5
"+" + "6" = 6
"+" + "7" = 7
"+" + "v" = vol
"+" + "z" = zam
"+" + "v" + "z" = vozam
"+" + "z" + "z" = zazam

if there is difference between capital and small letters, even slimply: (suggest)

"+" + "v" = vol
"+" + "z" = zam
"+" + "V" = vozam
"+" + "Z" = zazam

where all the things after = are line marks of 'Eoio (you know what I mean...)

They will come out like this, for example (in the case don't have difference between cap/small)
+5 = (value of) 5
+2+v+7 = 27
+7+z+0+v+4 = 704
+3+zz+6+vz+4+z+1+v+6 = 36416

The reason why I don't take 8 for vol is it will confuses others who don't have the font.
Now we can clearly see the numbers, just ignore the +'s V's Z's if don't have the font.

+3+zz+6+vz+4+z+1+v+6 = 36416

Sorry about that, it maybe not looks like a number with so many "codes".
But it is the clearest I can have from all complicated methods...

If possible, we also can use the symbol that easy to type (no need the press shift), more clear and seldom used in normal.
My suggestion is `

`3`zz`6`vz`4`z`1`v`6 = 36416

or .   ... no one will type words right after a fullstop and stick them up

.3.zz.6.vz.4.z.1.v.6 = 36416





But one question:

In your system is it a must to put 0's?
For °1036, A or B?

A. `1`vz`0`z`3`v`6
B. `1`vz`3`v`6

If your answer is B, then my plan is partly failed

Try clear the font cache:

• Remove the font from the system
• Find all *.lst files on system disk (C: )
• Remove all AdobeFntХ.lst, where X would be any number
• Reboot you system
• Install the font

Today I find that all texts normal in Firefox,
but problem still in the subtitles (and they are keeping smaller)

(Yesterday I DID reboot...)

[Kemaweyan]

Today I find that all texts normal in Firefox,

Yeah, because I asked Tsm. Markì to add text-rendering: optimizeLegibility in the [font] tag Now it works just fine in FireFox and Chrome Ulte fì'uri oe seiyi poru irayo nìtxan!

[Ikran Ahiyìk]

Just don't know why they become smaller suddenly..

[Prrton]

But, regardless of my having gotten it wrong in this example. We clearly have words that syllabify in a way that we need a "typing solution" for these run-ins of diphthong + vowel/diphthong

  pxiswawam [p'i.swaw.ˈam] adv. Just a moment ago pxiswaw am

  pxiswaway [p'i.swaw.ˈaj] adv. In just a second from now pxiswaw ay

  Kefyak?

The link between a/e and w/y cannot be too clear.
Ma.wey - but you still hear a bit w after the a before second syllable starts
Pxi.swaw.am/y - if you trap them too hard, it seems an extra tìftang comes out..

What I believe happens most commonly (phonologically) is pxi.swaw.wAM, pxi.swaw.wAY. This is not represented in the Roman-based orthography (spelling). However, Paul did say that officially that the plurals for 'birds' and 'yerik' are ayyayo and ayyerik. I have a mail off to him asking about what happens with the semivowel at the end of a diphthong when it comes into immediate contact with a following vowel or another diphthong. This is one area where the 'ambiguity' of the Roman orthography (the fact that the diphthongs don't have their own letters) is convenient. The patientive of kifkey is most commonly kifkeyit, too. This is another factor that we should keep in mind while deciding how to split the baby.

So now we heve three type of numbers:
- Na'vi word form - full form, for formal usage or normal sentance
- 'Rrtan (Arabic) numbers - mark the phone numbers etc.
- Line marks of 'Eoio - (more large) numbers marking for Na'vi (we assumed)

The three types should be come from different typing method.
- Full - just type them
- 'Rrtan - use the 0123456789 we have
- 'Eoio - ...... now discuss

I think the one you came up is very good, but something would make it easier.
It is not necessary to type the special †, simply + is ok...; under this way which SETED FOR OCTAL, no more somthing like ° for classific use.
But make use it in other way. Maybe... form group from each ["+" and letters], i.e. +__ become one glyph, +__+__ become two glyphs.

For the compounds, here is my idea:

"+" + "0" = 0
"+" + "1" = 1
"+" + "2" = 2
"+" + "3" = 3
"+" + "4" = 4
"+" + "5" = 5
"+" + "6" = 6
"+" + "7" = 7
"+" + "v" = vol
"+" + "z" = zam
"+" + "v" + "z" = vozam
"+" + "z" + "z" = zazam

if there is difference between capital and small letters, even slimply: (suggest)

"+" + "v" = vol
"+" + "z" = zam
"+" + "V" = vozam
"+" + "Z" = zazam

where all the things after = are line marks of 'Eoio (you know what I mean...)

They will come out like this, for example (in the case don't have difference between cap/small)
+5 = (value of) 5
+2+v+7 = 27
+7+z+0+v+4 = 704
+3+zz+6+vz+4+z+1+v+6 = 36416

The reason why I don't take 8 for vol is it will confuses others who don't have the font.
Now we can clearly see the numbers, just ignore the +'s V's Z's if don't have the font.

+3+zz+6+vz+4+z+1+v+6 = 36416

Sorry about that, it maybe not looks like a number with so many "codes".
But it is the clearest I can have from all complicated methods...

If possible, we also can use the symbol that easy to type (no need the press shift), more clear and seldom used in normal.
My suggestion is `

`3`zz`6`vz`4`z`1`v`6 = 36416

or .   ... no one will type words right after a fullstop and stick them up

.3.zz.6.vz.4.z.1.v.6 = 36416





But one question:

In your system is it a must to put 0's?
For °1036, A or B?

A. `1`vz`0`z`3`v`6
B. `1`vz`3`v`6

If your answer is B, then my plan is partly failed

This is a perfect example of someone else being much better at this than I am.

The plus sign (+) seems like a much better symbol than the one I suggested... EASIER. :-)

" ` " seems fine to me too, however, I wonder if it could just come once at the head of the string and not have to be repeated every time. This is a question for Tsm. Kemaweyan.

My answer for my original "vision" for °1036 would be just:

   `vz3z6

There would be no initial 1.

However, °4036 would be:

   `4vz3z6 (°4x°1000+°3x°10+°6)

My original idea is that if you don't SAY it, you don't have to (you shouldn't) write it either. That said, I am not a "number expert" in any language, so my opinion is just that; an opinion and nothing more.

[Ikran Ahiyìk]

What I believe happens most commonly (phonologically) is pxi.swaw.wAM, pxi.swaw.wAY. This is not represented in the Roman-based orthography (spelling). However, Paul did say that officially that the plurals for 'birds' and 'yerik' are ayyayo and ayyerik. I have a mail off to him asking about what happens with the semivowel at the end of a diphthong when it comes into immediate contact with a following vowel or another diphthong. This is one area where the 'ambiguity' of the Roman orthography (the fact that the diphthongs don't have their own letters) is convenient. The patientive of kifkey is most commonly kifkeyit, too. This is another factor that we should keep in mind while deciding how to split the baby.

Maybe just keep the current groupings if no new rules come out.

This is a perfect example of someone else being much better at this than I am.

The plus sign (+) seems like a much better symbol than the one I suggested... EASIER. :-)

" ` " seems fine to me too, however, I wonder if it could just come once at the head of the string and not have to be repeated every time. This is a question for Tsm. Kemaweyan.

My answer for my original "vision" for °1036 would be just:

   `vz3z6

There would be no initial 1.

However, °4036 would be:

   `4vz3z6 (°4x°1000+°3x°10+°6)

My original idea is that if you don't SAY it, you don't have to (you shouldn't) write it either. That said, I am not a "number expert" in any language, so my opinion is just that; an opinion and nothing more.

Oh... that is

°1036 - Vozampxevofu

	Vozam	pxe	vo	fu
`	vz	3	v	6

°4036 - Tsìvozampxevofu

	Tsì	vozam	pxe	vo	fu
`	4	vz	3	v	6

right?

Now I get this... You want the others just look it and read it like the full Na'vi numbers but simplified in recording.
This also a valid way, sorry I couldn't get this yesterday...

Then the problem is can the system "read" the initial "`" then group the codes into glyphs.

This is a question for Tsm. Kemaweyan.

 

If cannot, type ` for every groups like the s+t+x=stx now we have is also fine...

[Prrton]

What I believe happens most commonly (phonologically) is pxi.swaw.wAM, pxi.swaw.wAY...The patientive of kifkey is most commonly kifkeyit, too. This is another factor that we should keep in mind while deciding how to split the baby.

Maybe just keep the current groupings if no new rules come out.

I basically agree. We can always use the "1 pt. space" workaround for the scenarios that diphthongs and vowels collide and remain distinctly in tact. This scenario seems less common than when the semi-vowel components rearrange their alliances. The extra 1 pt. space does not interfere with reading text set in Eoio but rendered by default in Roman because the Eoio font is not available on the display system. It would be BETTER to have an official way for the font to deal directly with this scenario, bu it's not a strict requirement compared to other issues.

My answer for my original "vision" for °1036 would be just:

  `vz3z6

There would be no initial 1.

However, °4036 would be:

  `4vz3z6 (°4x°1000+°3x°10+°6)

My original idea is that if you don't SAY it, you don't have to (you shouldn't) write it either...

Oh... that is

°1036 - Vozampxevofu

	Vozam	pxe	vo	fu
`	vz	3	v	6

°4036 - Tsìvozampxevofu

	Tsì	vozam	pxe	vo	fu
`	4	vz	3	v	6

right?

Now I get this... You want the others just look it and read it like the full Na'vi numbers but simplified in recording.
This also a valid way, sorry I couldn't get this yesterday...

Then the problem is can the system "read" the initial "`" then group the codes into glyphs.

This is a question for Tsm. Kemaweyan.

 

If cannot, type ` for every groups like the s+t+x=stx now we have is also fine...

Yes. The only difference between the Na'vi number glyph:

  °7

and the compound glyph for 'Eywa' is that 'Eywa' is composed of only sound elements and is always only read 'Ey.wa', while all of the number glyphs have more than one pronunciation and those are context sensitive depending on how they are interacting in the numerical hierarchy with other numbers.

It can be read as ki.nä, ki, or hin depending on how it's used.

  palulukan a°7

  palulukan a°787

Spoiler: For folks who don't have the Eoio font installed.

[guest2859]

Is there an actual True Type font made after this, or do I just have to use the installer link above I don't trust?

[Prrton]

Is there an actual True Type font made after this, or do I just have to use the installer link above I don't trust?

This is the post from Tsm. Kemaweyan with the most up-to-date version of the font. The link is at the bottom of the post as a .zip.

   http://forum.learnnavi.org/projects/pamrelfya-aeoio/msg335792/#msg335792

The font is not TrueType. It's OpenType, but unless you are running a REALLY old version of Windows or Mac OS, you shouldn't notice any behavioral differences.

It's called "Eoio". You should be able to install it and use it normally as you would any other standard font on your OS.

Keep in mind though that it contains many contextual ligatures that make it possible for it to display text that was originally typed in the Roman transcription of Na'vi. Those contextual ligatures must be supported by the application you are using. For using it on the Forum the most recent version of Firefox works best on both Windows and Mac. On Mac it's 3.6.11. You should also find that it works in OpenOffice, Adobe Products, and if on Mac, Pages and Keynote from iWork '09. If you're having issues with it in the most recent version of MS Word on Windows, you should probably contact Tsm. Tirea Aean. I may be wrong, but I think he has it working in Word. I don't believe it functions properly in any MS Office product that is not BRAND NEW (due to the lack of contextual ligature support in those older apps).

Etrìpa syavi!*

[Tirea Aean]

Is there an actual True Type font made after this, or do I just have to use the installer link above I don't trust?

yeah. its an opentype font, if you dont like zips, here is the actual file. just save it then go open it and install it.

[Prrton]

Is there an actual True Type font made after this, or do I just have to use the installer link above I don't trust?

yeah. its an opentype font, if you dont like zips, here is the actual file. just save it then go open it and install it.

Talun set oel Mäkit serar nì'aw, tswera' futa ayzìpìri zene fko nari sivi nì'it.*

[Tirea Aean]

Is there an actual True Type font made after this, or do I just have to use the installer link above I don't trust?

yeah. its an opentype font, if you dont like zips, here is the actual file. just save it then go open it and install it.

Talun set oel Mäkit serar nì'aw, tswera' futa ayzìpìri zene fko nari sivi nì'it.*

Srane. Sar oel Upuntu Lìnaksì tafral nìteng ke zene oe txopu sivi aykuturi eltuä lefngap. Kop sar oel Wintosì ulte tsun tslivam lunil a fko txopu sivi faylìri a .zip*