Pamrelfya a'Eoio

[Prrton]

so what's the verdict on Eoio numbers? I vote that 8 and 9 dont have eoio converting contextual replacements. just have people know that these: °1 °2 °3 °4 °5 °6 °7 °10..... eoio numbers are OCTAL and these: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10....... are DECIMAL. aside from that:

how do we write numbers bigger than vol? apparently there are two ways to write vol...°8 or °10. but how do we write volaw, mevopey, or such correctly?

°1 °2 °3 °4 °5 °6 °7 °10 °11 °12 °13 °14 °15 °16 °17 °20 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16

Edit...these didnt even show up correctly. they DO however, work in notepad. Notepad is AMAZING. it must be the single best windows application for using the font in. it obeys all contextual substitution rules all the time.

The way you've suggested is fine for everyday use. The Font could also contain the glyphs for VOL, ZAM, VOZAM and ZAZAM mapped to these words in all caps with leading " ° " (°VOL, °ZAM, °VOZAM and °ZAZAM). Those could be reserved for special occasions. If they're not used "every day" then some people may not learn HOW to read them, but that's kind of like not knowing how to read Roman Numerals or Chinese Financial Numerals (零、壹、貳、叄、參、肆、伍、陸、柒、捌、玖、拾) well, I guess.

Since the glyphs for larger numbers exist, it would be nice to have them included in the font, but they certainly aren't required for everyday use (as long as I redesign mune or pxey).

   

volaw °11 or °81

mevopey °23* or °283*

Seeing 10 through 16 all lined up, I also think that the "borrowed" glyphs probably need a bit more space to the left and right for each.

10 11 12 13 14 15 16 »»» 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6

This could be done with individual pair kerning, but that seems like a LOT of work for Tsm Kemaweyan.

What do folks think of this as the redesign for PXEY?

   

[Kì'eyawn]

What do folks think of this as the redesign for PXEY?

Ke omum...  I feel like it makes sense for tsìng to be the first one that's really different, as it signifies a "full hand," as it were—i'm thinking like when you make tally marks.  You know, these:  | || ||| |||| etc.  The fifth is the one you draw a diagonal line through, which makes sense to a five-fingered human.  So similarly, it makes intuitive sense to me that the Na'vi system would add that horizontal element for the fourth number.

Gosh, i hope i'm making any sense...  Nevermind, just ignore me.  I'm really tired.

[Prrton]

What do folks think of this as the redesign for PXEY?

Ke omum...  I feel like it makes sense for tsìng to be the first one that's really different, as it signifies a "full hand," as it were—i'm thinking like when you make tally marks.  You know, these:  | || ||| |||| etc.  The fifth is the one you draw a diagonal line through, which makes sense to a five-fingered human.  So similarly, it makes intuitive sense to me that the Na'vi system would add that horizontal element for the fourth number.

Gosh, i hope i'm making any sense...  Nevermind, just ignore me.  I'm really tired.

It totally makes sense. It was part of the original design logic. But, if mune and pxey are to be directly juxtaposed for mevopey and pxevomun, there's visual ambiguity. That was not a part of the of the original concept. Something has to be done that makes them look "different". I tried to keep it at just three strokes.

[guest2859]

[English]I think I'll learn Na'vi before I start going this far.

[Prrton]

[English]I think I'll learn Na'vi before I start going this far.

   Not a bad idea.   

[Ikran Ahiyìk]

Can take this way?



All of these are octal

All of these are decimal/symbols
0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9


and we can skip the ° when using this font.

What do folks think of this as the redesign for PXEY?

Ke omum...  I feel like it makes sense for tsìng to be the first one that's really different, as it signifies a "full hand," as it were—i'm thinking like when you make tally marks.  You know, these:  | || ||| |||| etc.  The fifth is the one you draw a diagonal line through, which makes sense to a five-fingered human.  So similarly, it makes intuitive sense to me that the Na'vi system would add that horizontal element for the fourth number.

Gosh, i hope i'm making any sense...  Nevermind, just ignore me.  I'm really tired.

It totally makes sense. It was part of the original design logic. But, if mune and pxey are to be directly juxtaposed for mevopey and pxevomun, there's visual ambiguity. That was not a part of the of the original concept. Something has to be done that makes them look "different". I tried to keep it at just three strokes.

To me there is no problem either using the new or old one.

so what's the verdict on Eoio numbers? I vote that 8 and 9 dont have eoio converting contextual replacements. just have people know that these: °1 °2 °3 °4 °5 °6 °7 °10..... eoio numbers are OCTAL and these: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10....... are DECIMAL. aside from that:

how do we write numbers bigger than vol? apparently there are two ways to write vol...°8 or °10. but how do we write volaw, mevopey, or such correctly?

°1 °2 °3 °4 °5 °6 °7 °10 °11 °12 °13 °14 °15 °16 °17 °20 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16

Edit...these didnt even show up correctly. they DO however, work in notepad. Notepad is AMAZING. it must be the single best windows application for using the font in. it obeys all contextual substitution rules all the time.

The way you've suggested is fine for everyday use. The Font could also contain the glyphs for VOL, ZAM, VOZAM and ZAZAM mapped to these words in all caps with leading " ° " (°VOL, °ZAM, °VOZAM and °ZAZAM). Those could be reserved for special occasions. If they're not used "every day" then some people may not learn HOW to read them, but that's kind of like not knowing how to read Roman Numerals or Chinese Financial Numerals (零、壹、貳、叄、參、肆、伍、陸、柒、捌、玖、拾) well, I guess.

Since the glyphs for larger numbers exist, it would be nice to have them included in the font, but they certainly aren't required for everyday use (as long as I redesign mune or pxey).

   

volaw °11 or °81

mevopey °23* or °283*

Seeing 10 through 16 all lined up, I also think that the "borrowed" glyphs probably need a bit more space to the left and right for each.

10 11 12 13 14 15 16 »»» 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6

This could be done with individual pair kerning, but that seems like a LOT of work for Tsm Kemaweyan.

Don't like 8... again it is confusing. Why not use V to replace it?

The financial numerals are same as the normal, just use another way to write the numbers.
Not only on notes, but it also appears in formal uses.
To Na'vi, I think using full words to replace numerals have the effect already.

(Arabic) Numbers are too close, agree for adding spaces
Thanks for your hard work, it is amazing...




mevopey °23* or °283*

Why it could be pxevomun?

[Tirea Aean]

New version 1.010 now is available. Changes:

• Added glyph and substitution for "fya". It works always without any conditions
• Added glyphs and substitutions for some words (ke, lu, ma, si, livu, sivi). It works only if that is a single word

Example:

Lu oer tìkin a wìntxu ayngar nìwotx, ma oeyä eylan, fìpamrelfyat amip. Sìlpey oe tsnì tsaw livu sìltsan nìwotx ulte tsivun tìkangkem sivi fratsenge. Pamrel si ko!

sunu oer fì'u nìngay.

fya ke lu si livu sivi

Opera browser newest version:

Font shows up, but does not follow ANY substitution or ligature rules. so basically it still stands that on windows at least, probably every platform, Firefox is the best browser to use.

Instant messengers can handle the font in the exact same way. no substutuions or ligatures, but it shows up. this of course is an issue in the PROGRAM the font is being interpreted by, not the font itself. just puttin it out there.

I am able to send emails with Outlook 2010 and use all ligatures and substitutions. its just that in order to reply to me in the same way, you need Outlook 2010...

NUMBERS:

I as well am not huge on the 283 idea. 2v3 is a little better. I like also the idea that if you type °276 it means mezamkivofu and shows up as symbols like these:


And when you type 276, it means two-hundred-seventy-six. and shows up like
276

What do folks think of this as the redesign for PXEY?

Ke omum...  I feel like it makes sense for tsìng to be the first one that's really different, as it signifies a "full hand," as it were—i'm thinking like when you make tally marks.  You know, these:  | || ||| |||| etc.  The fifth is the one you draw a diagonal line through, which makes sense to a five-fingered human.  So similarly, it makes intuitive sense to me that the Na'vi system would add that horizontal element for the fourth number.

Gosh, i hope i'm making any sense...  Nevermind, just ignore me.  I'm really tired.

Agree.

so what's the verdict on Eoio numbers? I vote that 8 and 9 dont have eoio converting contextual replacements. just have people know that these: °1 °2 °3 °4 °5 °6 °7 °10..... eoio numbers are OCTAL and these: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10....... are DECIMAL. aside from that:

how do we write numbers bigger than vol? apparently there are two ways to write vol...°8 or °10. but how do we write volaw, mevopey, or such correctly?

°1 °2 °3 °4 °5 °6 °7 °10 °11 °12 °13 °14 °15 °16 °17 °20 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16

Edit...these didnt even show up correctly. they DO however, work in notepad. Notepad is AMAZING. it must be the single best windows application for using the font in. it obeys all contextual substitution rules all the time.

The way you've suggested is fine for everyday use. The Font could also contain the glyphs for VOL, ZAM, VOZAM and ZAZAM mapped to these words in all caps with leading " ° " (°VOL, °ZAM, °VOZAM and °ZAZAM). Those could be reserved for special occasions. If they're not used "every day" then some people may not learn HOW to read them, but that's kind of like not knowing how to read Roman Numerals or Chinese Financial Numerals (零、壹、貳、叄、參、肆、伍、陸、柒、捌、玖、拾) well, I guess.

Since the glyphs for larger numbers exist, it would be nice to have them included in the font, but they certainly aren't required for everyday use (as long as I redesign mune or pxey).

   

Yeah... even that would be fine. I dont need anything up to kizazamkivozamkizamkivohin here HRH (highest number we know?) but it would be nice just in case. id say up to zam would be cool. since 'aw thru vol(version 1 and 2 of vol) are done, its now only a matter of getting the powers of vol done. zam vozam zazam and such. OH how does Eoio in general handle that long number i gave above?

[Ikran Ahiyìk]

NUMBERS:

I as well am not huge on the 283 idea. 2v3 is a little better. I like also the idea that if you type °276 it means mezamkivofu and shows up as symbols like these:


And when you type 276, it means two-hundred-seventy-six. and shows up like
276

Agree to this

[Tirea Aean]

NUMBERS:

I as well am not huge on the 283 idea. 2v3 is a little better. I like also the idea that if you type °276 it means mezamkivofu and shows up as symbols like these:


And when you type 276, it means two-hundred-seventy-six. and shows up like
276

Agree to this

because all it was is basically agreeing with what you just said before, which was the same thing. XD lol i just noticed that.

[Ikran Ahiyìk]

Just see what we feel

One thing is the °, still don't know if the font can read it and change the glyphs.




For the pxey I don't know which stand am I...

||| seems be more reasonable, but as Prrton said, there's visual ambiguity.

[Tirea Aean]

Just see what we feel

One thing is the °, still don't know if the font can read it and change the glyphs.




For the pxey I don't know which stand am I...

||| seems be more reasonable, but as Prrton said, there's visual ambiguity.

how? ||| seems reasonable.

[Kemaweyan]

Mllte ngahu nìwotx, ma tsmukan. Sunu oer fìsäfpìl. Ngian set lu oer tìkangkem nì'it, ha fìkem sayi oe maw krr ayol Ye'rìn...

Irayo nìtxan

[Ikran Ahiyìk]

Just see what we feel

One thing is the °, still don't know if the font can read it and change the glyphs.




For the pxey I don't know which stand am I...

||| seems be more reasonable, but as Prrton said, there's visual ambiguity.

how? ||| seems reasonable.

Maybe in speed reading you will count them wrongly if the number is big and with many things aside...

[Prrton]

I agree completely that if writing 149, it is decimal and it will come out 149 and mean "one hundred forty-nine" (100+40+7, 百四十九).

P R O P O S A L :

If writing °147, it is octal and will come out °147 and mean «zamtsìvohin» ((decimal) 64+32+7 (=103), 百三).

This will be "Common Modern" Na'vi Numerical Notation.

If writing °4v7 or °4°v°7 (if necessary), it is octal and will come out °4°8°7 and mean «tsìvohin» ((decimal) 32+7 (=39), 三十九).

This will be "Formal Traditional" Na'vi Numerical Notation

I am only writing it now with the 8 instead of the v because as the font is currently constructed, that is the only way to get the symbol for vol to show up at this time.

The °2°3 vs. °3°2 distinction could get lost due to horizontal letter spacing or simply be challenging for the brain to sort out in large numbers °3°2°2°3°2. A program could have the tracking set too tight or browsers could display it differently (enough) that it's not possible to see the distinction easily. I will send a corrected glyph for the "unambiguous 3" to Tsm. Kemaweyan so that he can incorporate the change at his leisure. There is NO RUSH.

[Ikran Ahiyìk]

The °2°3 vs. °3°2 distinction could get lost due to horizontal letter spacing or simply be challenging for the brain to sort out in large numbers °3°2°2°3°2. A program could have the tracking set too tight or browsers could display it differently (enough) that it's not possible to see the distinction easily. I will send a corrected glyph for the "unambiguous 3" to Tsm. Kemaweyan so that he can incorporate the change at his leisure. There is NO RUSH.

It's also true, then go this... The system is created thing and cannot take anything (|||) as the only way.

I am only writing it now with the 8 instead of the v because as the font is currently constructed, that is the only way to get the symbol for vol to show up at this time.

Oh, now I see.
That means it is actually the one combinded from 'aw and kew (two horizontal lines at top and bottom, a vertical line between them and a small marking at the upper part of the vertical line).

I agree completely that if writing 149, it is decimal and it will come out 149 and mean "one hundred forty-nine" (100+40+7, 百四十九).

P R O P O S A L :

If writing °147, it is octal and will come out °147 and mean «zamtsìvohin» ((decimal) 64+32+7 (=103), 百三).

This will be "Common Modern" Na'vi Numerical Notation.

If writing °4v7 or °4°v°7 (if necessary), it is octal and will come out °4°8°7 and mean «tsìvohin» ((decimal) 32+7 (=39), 三十九).

This will be "Formal Traditional" Na'vi Numerical Notation

I am only writing it now with the 8 instead of the v because as the font is currently constructed, that is the only way to get the symbol for vol to show up at this time.

The °2°3 vs. °3°2 distinction could get lost due to horizontal letter spacing or simply be challenging for the brain to sort out in large numbers °3°2°2°3°2. A program could have the tracking set too tight or browsers could display it differently (enough) that it's not possible to see the distinction easily. I will send a corrected glyph for the "unambiguous 3" to Tsm. Kemaweyan so that he can incorporate the change at his leisure. There is NO RUSH.

Let me repeat it once to see if I got anything wrong...


"Common Modern" Na'vi Numerical Notation
That is put the numbers only. Like °42, °504, °55167, no place value words between them. If there is 0, use the kew.

Questions:
1. Here how about the numbers >°77777? No problem because no place value words required, but can they be written out?
2. What form is the numbers, Arabic or line markings?
     - If they are Arabic, I think they should be changed...
     - If they are the lines, I think we can hide the ° when they come out from 'Eoio, because the system is only for octal. But we still have to type it, to show others it is a octal number and let the font read it to change the form.


"Formal Traditional" Na'vi Numerical Notation
The one with place value words. At this moment it only up to °77777. It is directly change from the full Na'vi number words, they share the same rules (eg. skip the initial 'aw, skip the 0 places...).

Question:
The last one: mrr , volaw , zamtsìvol , mezamvohin , kizazamrrvozamuzampuvol
(also please check if I have any errors...)
How about this kind of notation? What it called?

Spoiler: About the Chinese words here

Maybe you want to use a similar system to explain the Na'vi numbers,
actually Na'vi and Chinese is not the same thing...


1. Zero places
In Na'vi, we will skip the whole place, but in Chinese, we will add a zero (零).
No matter how many 0's, only one zero is needed:
103 - 一百零三
1,407 - 一千四百零七
60,082 - 六萬零八十二
100,000,001 - 一億零一

If there are more than one groups of 0('s), they, which are not the last one, can be skipped:
1,009,003 - 一百萬(零)九千零三
40,100,605 - 四千(零)一十萬(零)六百零五

But the 0('s) will be really skipped if no number(s) after them.
20 - 二十
300 - 三百
4,000 - 四千
500,000 - 五十萬
601,000 - 六十萬零一千
8,050,400 - 八百(零)五萬零四百


2. Skipping of "一"
Only for numbers between (-)10 and (-)19, or their 10ⁿ times, where n is a multiple of 4.
It's true, we don't have 一十, 一十一 but 十, 十一 (10, 11);
we don't have 一十二萬, 一十三萬 but 十二萬, 十三萬 (120,000 , 130,000);
we don't have 一十四億, 一十五億 but 十四億, 十五億 (1,400,000,000 , 1,500,000,000);
we don't have 一十六萬億, 一十七萬億 but 十六萬億, 十七萬億 (16,000,000,000,000 , 17,000,000,000,000);
we don't have 一十八兆, 一十九兆 but 十八兆, 十九兆 (180,000,000,000,000,000 , 190,000,000,000,000,000) ...
Not in other numbers. For 112, it is 一百一十二, not 百十二 or 百一十二 or anything.


3. In informal speech
The "百三", they DO appears in (Cantonese) INFORMAL SPEECH, but it means 130.
It only for the numbers in the form of 10^c(10a+b), where a, b, c are positive integers; 0<a<10, 0<b<10, c>0 and not a multiple of 4 (sorry but this explaination is more clear...)
Then it can be expressed in this way:
aXbY
X, Y are the place value words, Y may not be appeared.
If a=1, it will be skipped.

150 - 百五 (10¹[10(1)+5])
680 - 六百八 (10¹[10(6)+8])
1,400 - 千四 (10²[10(1)+4])
3,700 - 三千七 (10²[10(3)+7])
81,000 - 四萬一 (10³[10(4)+1])
1,200,000 - 百二萬 (10⁵[10(1)+2])
96,000,000 - 九千六萬 (10⁶[10(9)+6])
270,000,000 - 二億七/兩億七 (10⁷[10(2)+7])

If c is a multiple of 4, it will become not informal
64 - 六十四 (10⁰[10(6)+4])
640,000 - 六十四萬 (10⁴[10(6)+4])
6,400,000,000 - 六十四億 (10⁸[10(6)+4])
640,000,000,000,000,000 - 六十四兆 (10¹⁶[10(6)+4])

[Prrton]

Let me repeat it once to see if I got anything wrong...

"Common Modern" Na'vi Numerical Notation
That is put the numbers only. Like °42, °504, °55167, no place value words between them. If there is 0, use the kew.

This seems correct to me. :-)

Questions:
1. Here how about the numbers >°77777? No problem because no place value words required, but can they be written out?

By "written out" do you mean: kizazamkivozamkizamkivohin? I think that "YES" they can be written out. That is the best way to learn about all of the pronunciations and combining rules of °7 (ki, hin, kinä) or the other numbers that change in context. But, I think that it is tute-nature to select the easiest way too, so many people will just prefer °77777 out of convenience (= "laziness").

2. What form is the numbers, Arabic or line markings?
     - If they are Arabic, I think they should be changed...
     - If they are the lines, I think we can hide the ° when they come out from 'Eoio, because the system is only for octal. But we still have to type it, to show others it is a octal number and let the font read it to change the form.

I don't understand what that means... "they should be changed"...??

Also, Karyu Pawl said when he decided on the word pamrel for writing that lì'rel, which he rejected at the time because alphabetic writing is focuses on SOUNDS, would be more like "hieroglyphic writing or Chinese ideograms". I didn't really think about it until now, but I guess that the numbers that you are referring to as "the lines" could be called «ayholpxay le'lì'rel» ("ideographic numbers") in Na'vi. We could use that as a working title for now, anyway.

"Formal Traditional" Na'vi Numerical Notation
The one with place value words. At this moment it only up to °77777. It is directly change from the full Na'vi number words, they share the same rules (eg. skip the initial 'aw, skip the 0 places...).

This is my working assumption. Yes.

Question:
The last one: mrr , volaw , zamtsìvol , mezamvohin , kizazamrrvozamuzampuvol
(also please check if I have any errors...)
How about this kind of notation? What it called?

That's a good question. Hmmm. In everyday English we commonly say "spell out the numbers", so perhaps "Spelled Numbers"? or "Full Vocalic Numeral Notation"?? I don't have a strong opinion on this.

Spoiler: About the Chinese words here

Maybe you want to use a similar system to explain the Na'vi numbers,
actually Na'vi and Chinese is not the same thing...


1. Zero places
In Na'vi, we will skip the whole place, but in Chinese, we will add a zero (零).
No matter how many 0's, only one zero is needed:
103 - 一百零三
1,407 - 一千四百零七
60,082 - 六萬零八十二
100,000,001 - 一億零一

If there are more than one groups of 0('s), they, which are not the last one, can be skipped:
1,009,003 - 一百萬(零)九千零三
40,100,605 - 四千(零)一十萬(零)六百零五

But the 0('s) will be really skipped if no number(s) after them.
20 - 二十
300 - 三百
4,000 - 四千
500,000 - 五十萬
601,000 - 六十萬零一千
8,050,400 - 八百(零)五萬零四百


2. Skipping of "一"
Only for numbers between (-)10 and (-)19, or their 10ⁿ times, where n is a multiple of 4.
It's true, we don't have 一十, 一十一 but 十, 十一 (10, 11);
we don't have 一十二萬, 一十三萬 but 十二萬, 十三萬 (120,000 , 130,000);
we don't have 一十四億, 一十五億 but 十四億, 十五億 (1,400,000,000 , 1,500,000,000);
we don't have 一十六萬億, 一十七萬億 but 十六萬億, 十七萬億 (16,000,000,000,000 , 17,000,000,000,000);
we don't have 一十八兆, 一十九兆 but 十八兆, 十九兆 (180,000,000,000,000,000 , 190,000,000,000,000,000) ...
Not in other numbers. For 112, it is 一百一十二, not 百十二 or 百一十二 or anything.


3. In informal speech
The "百三", they DO appears in (Cantonese) INFORMAL SPEECH, but it means 130.

I agree completely that they are not the same thing. ;-) Also, I should have double-checked Chinese notation compared to Japanese on 百三. They are not the same either. ;-) In Japanese the decimal value of "103" can be written 百三. In this case the 令 or 零 can be omitted. For example, 百三歳 = "103 years old".

Based on what I know and feel about Na'vi, it would not write the °1 ('aw) if it is not pronounced when the lì'rel (zam, vozam, zazam) were used in the "formal" notation.

It only for the numbers in the form of 10^c(10a+b), where a, b, c are positive integers; 0<a<10, 0<b<10, c>0 and not a multiple of 4 (sorry but this explaination is more clear...)
Then it can be expressed in this way:
aXbY
X, Y are the place value words, Y may not be appeared.
If a=1, it will be skipped.

150 - 百五 (10¹[10(1)+5])
680 - 六百八 (10¹[10(6)+8])
1,400 - 千四 (10²[10(1)+4])
3,700 - 三千七 (10²[10(3)+7])
81,000 - 四萬一 (10³[10(4)+1])
1,200,000 - 百二萬 (10⁵[10(1)+2])
96,000,000 - 九千六萬 (10⁶[10(9)+6])
270,000,000 - 二億七/兩億七 (10⁷[10(2)+7])

If c is a multiple of 4, it will become not informal
64 - 六十四 (10⁰[10(6)+4])
640,000 - 六十四萬 (10⁴[10(6)+4])
6,400,000,000 - 六十四億 (10⁸[10(6)+4])
640,000,000,000,000,000 - 六十四兆 (10¹⁶[10(6)+4])

[guest2859]

I ran a test, in GIMP logo creator, I typed 'Ivong Na'vi to be put into Eoio. Well, the N altered to just the G when they were together. (Hence, ng)

But, in word, it is written out, like ng instead of just g.

So, was it made this way I hope, or is the computer just bein' a rihtard again?

GIMP: G
MICROSOFT WORD: N G

(Just remove the space, I think Word doesn't process special effects)

---TO GO WITH THE NUMBERS---

It's kind of like a way of writing letters I made up a month ago (Not Na'vi, just English in, well, English off), I had a special way of writing numbers (DECIMAL ONLY).

Like you said, in English:

100 is with 2 0's

But what I made:

120 (2 0's by each other)

Basically, any multiple next to each other, would be 2 numbers together and underlined.

So,

1,000,000:
160 (6 0's)

56,335,999:
5623539 (2 3's and 3 9's)

888,655:
38625 (3 8's and 2 5's)

So, the way I made up was fairly simple, just an easy way of writing multiple numbers.

Number-Number-Multiply This Number - By This Number

[Ikran Ahiyìk]

By "written out" do you mean: kizazamkivozamkizamkivohin? I think that "YES" they can be written out. That is the best way to learn about all of the pronunciations and combining rules of °7 (ki, hin, kinä) or the other numbers that change in context. But, I think that it is tute-nature to select the easiest way too, so many people will just prefer °77777 out of convenience (= "laziness").

Sorry for my bad English

Change the question: In the "Common Modern" Na'vi Numerical Notation, can something like °156103, °753114, °20500671... exist?
(but proberly Na'vi won't use these numbers, just ask...)

I don't understand what that means... "they should be changed"...??

Also, Karyu Pawl said when he decided on the word pamrel for writing that lì'rel, which he rejected at the time because alphabetic writing is focuses on SOUNDS, would be more like "hieroglyphic writing or Chinese ideograms". I didn't really think about it until now, but I guess that the numbers that you are referring to as "the lines" could be called «ayholpxay le'lì'rel» ("ideographic numbers") in Na'vi. We could use that as a working title for now, anyway.

Change the question again...
If I want to use 'Eoio to show the number °1234567, what would it be?

This?
°


This?




Or this?
°1234567

I prefer the second one...


----------------------------------------------------------------


Yeah, the "lines" I mean is... this... "ideographic numbers"
There's only a few vocabulary in my brain

That's a good question. Hmmm. In everyday English we commonly say "spell out the numbers", so perhaps "Spelled Numbers"? or "Full Vocalic Numeral Notation"?? I don't have a strong opinion on this.

"Full Vocalic Numeral Notation" seems good.
I think this is the most formal notation.

Spoiler: About the Chinese words here

Maybe you want to use a similar system to explain the Na'vi numbers,
actually Na'vi and Chinese is not the same thing...


1. Zero places
In Na'vi, we will skip the whole place, but in Chinese, we will add a zero (零).
No matter how many 0's, only one zero is needed:
103 - 一百零三
1,407 - 一千四百零七
60,082 - 六萬零八十二
100,000,001 - 一億零一

If there are more than one groups of 0('s), they, which are not the last one, can be skipped:
1,009,003 - 一百萬(零)九千零三
40,100,605 - 四千(零)一十萬(零)六百零五

But the 0('s) will be really skipped if no number(s) after them.
20 - 二十
300 - 三百
4,000 - 四千
500,000 - 五十萬
601,000 - 六十萬零一千
8,050,400 - 八百(零)五萬零四百


2. Skipping of "一"
Only for numbers between (-)10 and (-)19, or their 10ⁿ times, where n is a multiple of 4.
It's true, we don't have 一十, 一十一 but 十, 十一 (10, 11);
we don't have 一十二萬, 一十三萬 but 十二萬, 十三萬 (120,000 , 130,000);
we don't have 一十四億, 一十五億 but 十四億, 十五億 (1,400,000,000 , 1,500,000,000);
we don't have 一十六萬億, 一十七萬億 but 十六萬億, 十七萬億 (16,000,000,000,000 , 17,000,000,000,000);
we don't have 一十八兆, 一十九兆 but 十八兆, 十九兆 (180,000,000,000,000,000 , 190,000,000,000,000,000) ...
Not in other numbers. For 112, it is 一百一十二, not 百十二 or 百一十二 or anything.


3. In informal speech
The "百三", they DO appears in (Cantonese) INFORMAL SPEECH, but it means 130.

I agree completely that they are not the same thing. ;-) Also, I should have double-checked Chinese notation compared to Japanese on 百三. They are not the same either. ;-) In Japanese the decimal value of "103" can be written 百三. In this case the 令 or 零 can be omitted. For example, 百三歳 = "103 years old".

Based on what I know and feel about Na'vi, it would not write the °1 ('aw) if it is not pronounced when the lì'rel (zam, vozam, zazam) were used in the "formal" notation.

It only for the numbers in the form of 10^c(10a+b), where a, b, c are positive integers; 0<a<10, 0<b<10, c>0 and not a multiple of 4 (sorry but this explaination is more clear...)
Then it can be expressed in this way:
aXbY
X, Y are the place value words, Y may not be appeared.
If a=1, it will be skipped.

150 - 百五 (10¹[10(1)+5])
680 - 六百八 (10¹[10(6)+8])
1,400 - 千四 (10²[10(1)+4])
3,700 - 三千七 (10²[10(3)+7])
81,000 - 四萬一 (10³[10(4)+1])
1,200,000 - 百二萬 (10⁵[10(1)+2])
96,000,000 - 九千六萬 (10⁶[10(9)+6])
270,000,000 - 二億七/兩億七 (10⁷[10(2)+7])

If c is a multiple of 4, it will become not informal
64 - 六十四 (10⁰[10(6)+4])
640,000 - 六十四萬 (10⁴[10(6)+4])
6,400,000,000 - 六十四億 (10⁸[10(6)+4])
640,000,000,000,000,000 - 六十四兆 (10¹⁶[10(6)+4])

Sorry, I don't know Japanese, two different things again, forgive my "you get it worng" sense in that post...
but, whatever, now understanding the Na'vi one is fine

I ran a test, in GIMP logo creator, I typed 'Ivong Na'vi to be put into Eoio. Well, the N altered to just the G when they were together. (Hence, ng)

But, in word, it is written out, like ng instead of just g.

So, was it made this way I hope, or is the computer just bein' a rihtard again?

GIMP: G
MICROSOFT WORD: N G

(Just remove the space, I think Word doesn't process special effects)

Me too, Word cannot process them.

It's kind of like a way of writing letters I made up a month ago (Not Na'vi, just English in, well, English off), I had a special way of writing numbers (DECIMAL ONLY).

Like you said, in English:

100 is with 2 0's

But what I made:

120 (2 0's by each other)

Basically, any multiple next to each other, would be 2 numbers together and underlined.

So,

1,000,000:
160 (6 0's)

56,335,999:
5623539 (2 3's and 3 9's)

888,655:
38625 (3 8's and 2 5's)

So, the way I made up was fairly simple, just an easy way of writing multiple numbers.

Number-Number-Multiply This Number - By This Number

I think this way is for someone who speak the 1 million as "one-O-O-O-O-O-O"...

There are too many methods for number notation in terms of writting or speaking.

[Prrton]

Change the question: In the "Common Modern" Na'vi Numerical Notation, can something like °156103, °753114, °20500671... exist?
(but proberly Na'vi won't use these numbers, just ask...)

I have NO IDEA. This is way outside of my domain of expertise. I don't see why not, but I have no idea how to pronounce them.

Change the question again...
If I want to use 'Eoio to show the number °1234567, what would it be?

This?
°


This?




Or this?
°1234567

I prefer the second one...

I prefer the 2nd one too.

Yeah, the "lines" I mean is... this... "ideographic numbers"
There's only a few vocabulary in my brain

This MUCH MUCH more English vocabulary in your brain than Cantonese in mine!!

"Full Vocalic Numeral Notation" seems good.
I think this is the most formal notation.

Undoubtedly, it's the most formal.

Sorry, I don't know Japanese, two different things again, forgive my "you get it worng" sense in that post...
but, whatever, now understanding the Na'vi one is fine

I didn't get any bad sense at all. I should have double-checked the standards for Chinese before posting 百三. 

I ran a test, in GIMP logo creator, I typed 'Ivong Na'vi to be put into Eoio. Well, the N altered to just the G when they were together. (Hence, ng)

But, in word, it is written out, like ng instead of just g.

So, was it made this way I hope, or is the computer just bein' a rihtard again?

GIMP: G
MICROSOFT WORD: N G

(Just remove the space, I think Word doesn't process special effects)

Me too, Word cannot process them.

It's kind of like a way of writing letters I made up a month ago (Not Na'vi, just English in, well, English off), I had a special way of writing numbers (DECIMAL ONLY).

Like you said, in English:

100 is with 2 0's

But what I made:

120 (2 0's by each other)

Basically, any multiple next to each other, would be 2 numbers together and underlined.

So,

1,000,000:
160 (6 0's)

56,335,999:
5623539 (2 3's and 3 9's)

888,655:
38625 (3 8's and 2 5's)

So, the way I made up was fairly simple, just an easy way of writing multiple numbers.

Number-Number-Multiply This Number - By This Number

I think this way is for someone who speak the 1 million as "one-O-O-O-O-O-O"...

There are too many methods for number notation in terms of writting or speaking.

I agree. This makes my brain MELT.

[Tirea Aean]

I ran a test, in GIMP logo creator, I typed 'Ivong Na'vi to be put into Eoio. Well, the N altered to just the G when they were together. (Hence, ng)

But, in word, it is written out, like ng instead of just g.

So, was it made this way I hope, or is the computer just bein' a rihtard again?

GIMP: G
MICROSOFT WORD: N G

(Just remove the space, I think Word doesn't process special effects)

Microsoft Office 2010 can totally do this easily. you just have to tell it to use contextual and standard substitution ligatures. if you have anything older than 2010, you cant do it at all. youll never solve the problem you posted about here.

BUT as i said a bit ago, USE NOTEPAD!!!!!!!!!!! it WORKS! 

as for the 120 = one hundred thing, not in favor. though i understand it.