Pamrelfya a'Eoio

Started by Prrton, September 02, 2010, 08:52:46 PM

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Lance R. Casey

Quote from: Prrton on September 08, 2010, 01:49:53 PM
Now that I do, I even see a touch of it in good ol' Roman with P/B and M/N.

The Elves were (or, at least, Fëanor was) all about order in their writing system, and Tolkien notes that that very connection between P and B is about the only thing they would find logical about ours. Tengwar has a very simple basic structure, with simple basic "rules" (or "preferences") for how characters relate to one another, which is precisely what makes the system usable for more or less any given language. And it is pretty, although I admit that I too have never been able to read it at speed (not that I've tried too hard).

(Plus, Tolkien's linguistic deeds can bear a bit of criticism at times, I think. ;))

// Lance R. Casey

Tirea Aean

I cant wait till the keyboard font is complete...if it is possible to make one for this. I think it is a nice system. that Frommer letter looks really nice in it. it looks as alien as it is supposed to be. or course some things seem to be coincidentally similar to symbols on earth, but that just makes it even easier to learn and remember ;D

also, ma Prrton, i really like what you did with the TireaAean as seen in my forum avatar. is it that proper nouns get "stack forms"?

Prrton

#82
Quote from: Tirea Aean on September 08, 2010, 08:52:51 PM
I cant wait till the keyboard font is complete...if it is possible to make one for this. I think it is a nice system. that Frommer letter looks really nice in it. it looks as alien as it is supposed to be. or course some things seem to be coincidentally similar to symbols on earth, but that just makes it even easier to learn and remember ;D

also, ma Prrton, i really like what you did with the TireaAean as seen in my forum avatar. is it that proper nouns get "stack forms"?

Ma Tirea,

YOU get a compound because you seemed to be willing to show the idea publicly outside of this thread.  ;)  Anyone could make up his or her own. I think of them like a "chop" or "seal" or "crest". "Brands" would be iconographically similar too, but I hate that animals were (are?) burned with them, so let's drop that.

     

I was thinking after reading your note about what we should actually call them?? I was distinguishing between "stacks" and "compounds" previously, but I don't actually think the distinction is important, and we don't have any word for "stacking" in Na'vi (yet), so IF they are in Na'vi:

  'awstengyawnema ayrel lepam

that seems like "letter complex" or "letter combo" to me, so probably just "compound" in English would be best. ??

K. Pawl commented at the time that he labeled "writing" as pamrel that ideographic or hieroglyphic writing might be lì'rel. Perhaps he would consider these complete words in one discrete set as lì'rel... Don't know... We could ask. Even with that as the Na'vi concept, "compound" still seems to work well (for me) as the English label.

Comments/ideas very welcome.  :)



Tirea Aean

Compound sounds good.

OR 'awstengyawnema rel lepam...XD

C'tri Atan'itan

I see a fair few people saying they don't like/ understand it, and I must admit that I certainly don't understand it yet either xD
But I'll wait till this is finished by people who know what they're talking about better than I do

Either way, it looks awesome, and looking forwards to seeing the final version :D
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Prrton

Quote from: Kemaweyan on September 06, 2010, 06:17:01 AM

I just thought about that too. I don't know, if it's piza+yu, then piza should be verb. But what could mean this verb?


I have asked K. Pawl if piza.yu might be "ancestor" contrasted with pikä.yu, "descendent" where piza might mean "come before" (in time) and pikä might mean "to follow" (in time (not physically)). Of course, it is possible that these are archaic verbs that are no longer used in common speech. We have a word for "ancestor" in English of Teutonic root derivation that we no longer use, "forebear", from "Fore.be.-er", a "person who previously existed."

«Pi» could have a linguistic 'genetic' relationship to «pxì» in which it means something like "one who was a part (of me) that comes down to now in time and my existence".

If the Na'vi have a biological understanding of heredity, then «pi» could be the word for "gene".

For me this all goes back to the question of what Mo'at's tongue actually does or does not do when she tastes Jake's blood. Is she a "performer" or is there a "chem lab" in her mouth? If her tongue and brain actually do chemical analysis (the way that dogs can smell cancer and diabetes, but in a more advanced fashion), then they very well may have an understanding of chemical markers/molecules/genes... even if it's more like the early Greek concept of an "atom".


MIPP

Quote from: Prrton on September 09, 2010, 01:31:15 PM
Quote from: Kemaweyan on September 06, 2010, 06:17:01 AM

I just thought about that too. I don't know, if it's piza+yu, then piza should be verb. But what could mean this verb?


I have asked K. Pawl if piza.yu might be "ancestor" contrasted with pikä.yu, "descendent" where piza might mean "come before" (in time) and pikä might mean "to follow" (in time (not physically)). Of course, it is possible that these are archaic verbs that are no longer used in common speech. We have a word for "ancestor" in English of Teutonic root derivation that we no longer use, "forebear", from "Fore.be.-er", a "person who previously existed."

«Pi» could have a linguistic 'genetic' relationship to «pxì» in which it means something like "one who was a part (of me) that comes down to now in time and my existence".

If the Na'vi have a biological understanding of heredity, then «pi» could be the word for "gene".

For me this all goes back to the question of what Mo'at's tongue actually does or does not do when she tastes Jake's blood. Is she a "performer" or is there a "chem lab" in her mouth? If her tongue and brain actually do chemical analysis (the way that dogs can smell cancer and diabetes, but in a more advanced fashion), then they very well may have an understanding of chemical markers/molecules/genes... even if it's more like the early Greek concept of an "atom".



Ma Prrton,

can't you give me/us a beta font for the eoio, or something? I personally would love to write ^^
Na'vi for beginners | Dict-Na'vi.com

Hufwe lìng io pay, nìfnu slä nìlaw.
Loveless, Act IV.

Prrton

Quote from: MIPP on September 09, 2010, 02:39:17 PM


Ma Prrton,

can't you give me/us a beta font for the eoio, or something? I personally would love to write ^^


Ma MIPP,

Tsmukan Kemaweyan is creating the font as a font. I don't have anything now other than artwork. You'll have to talk to him. I don't know if he's going to create a "beta testing" program or not.  :-\


Kì'eyawn

Well, i'm massively late to this party.  But for what it's worth, i think this is a gorgeous script—although i confess i haven't even tried learning it yet.  I particularly like the "hanging" feature from Devanagari—but then, that's prolly because i've been fantasizing about learning Sanskrit since, oh, forever.

Hopefully i'll get some time to play with this soon.
eo Eywa oe 'ia

Fra'uri tìyawnur oe täpivìng nìwotx...

Nìwotxkrr Tìyawn

Looks like I'm quite a few days late to the party eh? There's just not enough time in the day.

Anyways, I read through all 6 pages and I think it is very cool indeed (though I always imagined a more flowy, wavelike sort of pattern if the na'vi were ever to write) Seems like it took and awful lot of time to make it too. I'm pretty sure I won't get into learning unfortunately, got enough on my plate right now with school and learning Na'vi in general.  :D
Naruto Shippuden Episode 166: Confession
                                    Watch it, Love it, Live it

Prrton

Quote from: Nìwotxkrr Tìyawn on September 09, 2010, 07:41:25 PM
Looks like I'm quite a few days late to the party eh? There's just not enough time in the day.

Anyways, I read through all 6 pages and I think it is very cool indeed (though I always imagined a more flowy, wavelike sort of pattern if the na'vi were ever to write) Seems like it took and awful lot of time to make it too. I'm pretty sure I won't get into learning unfortunately, got enough on my plate right now with school and learning Na'vi in general.  :D

More flowy handwriting version coming (from me). I have the work on paper done and will try to scan it all tonight before going to sleep so that I can do the outline design work over the weekend (between replacing a front door on the house... that still needs stripping (at least sanding) and repainting first).

Whether Kem is interested in making that into a font or not will be up to him.

I've decided to not even generate the verb infix compounds 'cause I really really doubt that they'll be required (relevant/used) for everyday handwriting in any scenario. If people do want (demand) them for any reason, I can always do them later.


MIPP

Quote from: Prrton on September 09, 2010, 06:02:13 PM
Quote from: MIPP on September 09, 2010, 02:39:17 PM


Ma Prrton,

can't you give me/us a beta font for the eoio, or something? I personally would love to write ^^


Ma MIPP,

Tsmukan Kemaweyan is creating the font as a font. I don't have anything now other than artwork. You'll have to talk to him. I don't know if he's going to create a "beta testing" program or not.  :-\



Ngati kame ma Prrton,

thank you, but if you don't have it, then couldn't you write here the symbols so that I can make copy and paste?
QuoteOne thing I'm quite pleased with is the promise of legibility at smaller point sizes. It works very well out of my laser printer at home at a size that's roughly the equivalent of 12 pt. Of course, it's not as legible as the roman alphabet or even Japanese or Chinese, but they have been optimized by centuries (if not millennia) of kaizen (改善, "improvement for the better (and benefit of society)").

Like you did there (改善), but with the symbols for each letter (and other thing that you think that are important). Btw, also in Na'vi and not in Japanese or Chinese (as those symbols aren't Na'vi, or so I think).
Na'vi for beginners | Dict-Na'vi.com

Hufwe lìng io pay, nìfnu slä nìlaw.
Loveless, Act IV.

agent1022

I've also done some writing trying this out, but my mastery is still somewhat glance-at-cheat-sheet-write-in-character-repeat and not up to the standard of scribble-scribble-and-connect-these-two-glyphs. Still awesome, though. I do recommend starting on lined paper and/or squared paper though. It helps a lot.


Ngima palulukantsyìp ngim lu

Prrton

Quote from: MIPP on September 10, 2010, 02:41:09 AM

Ngati kame ma Prrton,

thank you, but if you don't have it, then couldn't you write here the symbols so that I can make copy and paste?


Ma Tsmuk,

I don't have time today to label each glyph, but here is what I gave Kem (except converted to .png and .jpg for your purposes). You can go back and reference the other guide earlier in this topic to figure out which is which. The first graphic is a translucent PING so you can copy and paste out of that easily after you've downloaded it. The 2nd is a JPEG that shows where the 'hang line' (green) is for each letter or compound.

Keep in mind that the Arabic Numerals ( 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7  8 9 ) would have to be a function of contact with the sawtute, so not originally native to Pandora in our "construct" around this writing system.





Etrìpa syayvi ulte makto zong.



Kemaweyan

Ma smuktu, oeru txoa livu. Oe slolu spxin ulte ke tsun set tìkangkem sivi fontìri. Sìlpey oe tsnì ye'rìn zayo ulte tsakrr ngayop tsat.
My brothers and sisters, sorry. I got sick and yet can't work with font. I hope soon I get well and then create that.
Nìrangal frapo tsirvun pivlltxe nìNa'vi :D

Prrton

#95
Quote from: Kemaweyan on September 10, 2010, 12:22:30 PM
Ma smuktu, oeru txoa livu. Oe slolu spxin ulte ke tsun set tìkangkem sivi fontìri. Sìlpey oe tsnì ye'rìn zayo ulte tsakrr ngayop tsat.
My brothers and sisters, sorry. I got sick and yet can't work with font. I hope soon I get well and then create that.

Ma Kemaweyan, fìtxan keftxo!

Zenke fpivìl futa fìtxele fontä tsranten pxel fpomtokx ngeyä. Tìtxulari ke lu kea lun a zene win säpivi.

Zoslivu pxiye'rìn nìzawnong.*


Kì'eyawn

Tsaw wou, ma Prrton!  I'll have to play with this later.
eo Eywa oe 'ia

Fra'uri tìyawnur oe täpivìng nìwotx...

Payä Tìrol

Keftxo :( Tsivurok, ulte oe sìlpey tsnì nga ye'rìn zoslìyevu.^
Oeyä atanìl mì sìvawm, mipa tìreyä tìsìlpeyur yat terìng

Kì'eyawn

Quote from: Kemaweyan on September 10, 2010, 12:22:30 PM
Ma smuktu, oeru txoa livu. Oe slolu spxin ulte ke tsun set tìkangkem sivi fontìri. Sìlpey oe tsnì ye'rìn zayo ulte tsakrr ngayop tsat.
My brothers and sisters, sorry. I got sick and yet can't work with font. I hope soon I get well and then create that.

Keftxo, ma Kemaweyan!  Fontìri ngeyä txe'lan mawey livu.  Zoslivu nga ye'rìn, ma 'eylan.
eo Eywa oe 'ia

Fra'uri tìyawnur oe täpivìng nìwotx...

Kemaweyan

Irayo ayngar nìwotx, ma eylan ;)
Thank you all, my friends :)
Nìrangal frapo tsirvun pivlltxe nìNa'vi :D