Some observations on Na'vi poetry

Started by wm.annis, January 10, 2010, 03:11:22 PM

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wm.annis

Here's a letter to a linguistics journal written from the viewpoint of an opinionated, earth-bound xenolinguist trying to figure out Na'vi verse form: Prolegomena to the Study of Na'vi Poetics.

Eight

#1
Looks very interesting.

I'll look forward to reading it properly soon.

Edit: <removed comments>
Ack. Ignore me - out of my depth. Made sense of it.

Taronyu

Fìpo prrte' txan kivame lolu. 

This was such a pleasure to read.

wm.annis


Nìwotxkrr Tìyawn

It was very nice, I'm in high school near the top of my class if not the top and I have to say that there are not enough people like you or I around here.
Naruto Shippuden Episode 166: Confession
                                    Watch it, Love it, Live it

Txon Tsyal

Personally i don`t take the Na`vi as alien because i think i understand them.

When I look on the news and see what horrible things are happening around the world I can`t help but wonder what is the source of them and therefore my own race is becoming more and more alien to me as time passes by.

Does that make any sense?

ruseya atan txonyä

Really nice work. Amazing what people can already do with the little bit we know of this language.  :)

Just a quick question. Shouldn't it be txe'lanä (of the heart)? I read te'lanä multiple times. Just a typo or did I miss something?

wm.annis

Quote from: ruseya atan txonyä on January 12, 2010, 02:48:40 PMJust a quick question. Shouldn't it be txe'lanä (of the heart)? I read te'lanä multiple times. Just a typo or did I miss something?

I made the same mistake the first time I read the poems!

What process could cause txe'lan to become te'lan?  Lenition, in this case representing the plural.

Ftiafpi

A most fascinating read. I must admit that most of it is well over my head but I found it enjoyable, concise, and well written.

ruseya atan txonyä

#9
Quote from: wm.annis on January 12, 2010, 03:32:20 PM
Quote from: ruseya atan txonyä on January 12, 2010, 02:48:40 PMJust a quick question. Shouldn't it be txe'lanä (of the heart)? I read te'lanä multiple times. Just a typo or did I miss something?

I made the same mistake the first time I read the poems!

What process could cause txe'lan to become te'lan?  Lenition, in this case representing the plural.

Of course. I should have thought of that! Well, one more mistake that will eventually lead to me learning something. Irayo for the explanation!

/edit:
On second look, i still have a question about the line
Te'lanä le-Na'vi being translated as hearts of the people
If the genetive is attached to te'lan, wouldn't that make it the people of hearts or something along those lines?
Te'lan le-Na'viyä would make more sense to me, if its supposed to mean 'hearts of the people' ('the people's hearts')

wm.annis

Quote from: Ftiafpi on January 12, 2010, 03:47:05 PM
A most fascinating read. I must admit that most of it is well over my head but I found it enjoyable, concise, and well written.

Well, the point of the joke requires it be a bit technical.  There are a few linguistics jokes in there.  But the discussion of poetic technique, as far as it goes, is basically sound.

wm.annis

Quote from: ruseya atan txonyä on January 12, 2010, 03:58:07 PM
On second look, i still have a question about the line
Te'lanä le-Na'vi being translated as hearts of the people
If the genetive is attached to te'lan, wouldn't that make it the people of hearts or something along those lines?
Te'lan le-Na'viyä would make more sense to me, if its supposed to mean 'hearts of the people' ('the people's hearts')

Well, the song keeps chaining the syntax forward:

S(ì) ayzìsìtä kato,
Sì 'ekong te'lanä
Te'lanä le-Na'vi
   5

So, te'lanä in line 5 is just a repetition of the one in line 4, "and the rhythm of the years // and the beat of the hearts // of the hearts of the people."  Since it's just a repetition, it should keep the same case.  There's already one genitive in the line, so rather than say "of the people" (which is given in the translation)" the adjective leNa'vi Na'vi is used, so the last line could be translated, "of the Na'vi hearts."

(While normally you'd need a linking -a- to modify a noun, when an adjective is derived by using the le- prefix, it tends to let le- do the job of -a-, making te'lanä leNa'vi, but still requiring leNa'via te'lanä.  Confirmed by email from Frommer to one of the guys editing the Wikipedia article.)

Ftiafpi

Quote from: wm.annis on January 12, 2010, 04:35:21 PM
Quote from: Ftiafpi on January 12, 2010, 03:47:05 PM
A most fascinating read. I must admit that most of it is well over my head but I found it enjoyable, concise, and well written.

Well, the point of the joke requires it be a bit technical.  There are a few linguistics jokes in there.  But the discussion of poetic technique, as far as it goes, is basically sound.

Oh I got the gist of the jokes, it was quite well done. Just saying that what little linguistic terminology I know are not in the field of poetry.

wm.annis

Quote from: Ftiafpi on January 12, 2010, 04:50:46 PMJust saying that what little linguistic terminology I know are not in the field of poetry.

Then you must read more Calvert Watkins!

Karyu Amawey

Well formatted!  I really enjoyed reading this!!!
Oel ayngati kameie

Kiliyä

Thanks, wm.annis.  Loved it.  Any chance our esteemed scholar could take a crack at infixes?
Peu sa'nokyä ayoengyä?  Pefya ayoeng poeru kìte'e sayi?
Pefya ayoengìl poeti hayawnu, na poel ayoengit hawnu?

What of our mother?  How shall we serve her?  How shall we protect her as she protects us?

wm.annis


wm.annis

Quote from: Kiliyä on January 12, 2010, 07:25:05 PM
Thanks, wm.annis.  Loved it.

Glad to hear it.

QuoteAny chance our esteemed scholar could take a crack at infixes?

There are already many documents about infixes.  What would you hope for out of another one?

Erimeyz


Eight

Quote from: ruseya atan txonyä on January 12, 2010, 03:58:07 PM
On second look, i still have a question about the line
Te'lanä le-Na'vi being translated as hearts of the people
Yup - I did the same thing. :)

Then figured it out and managed to delete my question. Damn poetry - never was much cop at it.