Author Topic: The Unofficial Na’vi Learner Survey  (Read 4974 times)

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Offline Alyara Arati

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Re: The Unofficial Na’vi Learner Survey
« Reply #80 on: July 23, 2015, 07:59:19 pm »
A short guideline is useful, but not necessarily complete.

Quote
The learners (actually everyone) make mistakes. It’s normal, we always make mistakes when we learn. Remember that we were all beginners once. They will learn and ameliorate by the time by consulting the material, reading our sentences, asking questions, interacting with us, etc. Also, the rate of learning is different for everyone.

Some might want to help the students by correcting the mistakes. Some want them to learn from their mistakes. However, it doesn’t necessarily happen like this.

We have got complaints about members who ‘’rush’’ to correct the texts. This attitude of correcting systematically can be negative and unhelpful. It can also turn threads into correction threads, which kills not only the idea and the conversation, but also the pleasure for some people.
Additionally, by correcting in a ‘ninja’ or ‘grammar Na’zi’ manner, we do not leave enough time to them to realize their (minor) mistakes or to ask questions about the text they just wrote. Why not just do like in the audio chat thread?

We need to find a friendlier approach to the students.
The method we want to establish is to actually help them with the more difficult parts of the language instead of just correcting.

We should observe the evolution of the students, then intervene to correct one or two things at a time. Still, there’s an acceptable way to correct, without making the people feel they’re really wrong.

It is recommended to not correct immediately whenever there’s a mistake. That little forgotten accusative doesn’t require immediate attention, unless the rule is regularly forgotten. As for the beginning students, it is probably more appropriate to not correct yet, just help them to make sentences. The exceptions are the poetry, the stories, the projects, the learning materials and the demand of a person.

Avoid to make your grammar analysis in the threads. A simple PM can suffice and you can help the person without deviating the thread. Teach the part of the language in which the student is mistaken. Do not haveAt the end of the message, it would be nice to invite the student to ask questions if he/she didn't understand something.
It is important to keep a good attitude. A good attitude means to be friendly, courteous, kind and respectful.
Positiveness and helpfulness are the keys. It is great that the students try to speak Na'vi. We must encourage them.

By the way, if you have any doubt about your correction, you can consult a reference, ask another member or simply tell the student what you are sure of.

You are free to follow or not these recommendations. If you have a better or similarly good method, feel free to use it.


This is all very well and good, but the thing to remember is that these are not new issues.  They have come up before.  Did we learn anything then?
If not, will we learn anything now?  I reference this thread:  http://forum.learnnavi.org/beginners/pivangkxo-fail-what-to-do-with-beginner-chat-thread/
Learn how to see.  Realize that everything connects to everything else.
~ Leonardo da Vinci

Offline Tirea Aean

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Re: The Unofficial Na’vi Learner Survey
« Reply #81 on: July 24, 2015, 02:48:28 pm »
Between everyone who knows a lot here, we can certainly teach any beginner.

We will likely not ever have a licensed certified professional teacher come here and teach a constructed language from a movie for free.

It's up to us. We must be teachers, and we must keep the vibe positive all over this community, and help people. And we must remove all negative attitudes that currently keep people from wanting to even come here to learn.

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Offline Tstewa Ikrantsyìp

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Re: The Unofficial Na’vi Learner Survey
« Reply #82 on: July 24, 2015, 05:25:41 pm »
maybe a handful of questions before the teaching to find out what kind of leaner they are before they are taught e.g
1. do you believe you learn faster by
a - reading
b - speaking
c - listening
d - writing

2. what kind of learner are you?
a - learn the technical things first (grammar, phonetics, affixes)
b - simply memorise what I can and start with that
c - learn the different parts so I can immediately make sentences.

do you see ma oeyä soaia!!
it's not that difficult!

I don't mean to cause offense, but rutxe!
we're all going on about how difficult it is too teach someone because everyone learns differently and its so hard to find out what they succeed in.
ask them!!
or better yet, if u don't want to ask them, give them a series of different materials, an MP3 file, a video, flash-cards, a copy-me list
ask them to use each of these and at the end of the week see how far they have come and ask which one worked for them.

yes its daunting, to try and create a series of different learning pieces for their benefit, but I told a friend of mine not even a few days ago "you don't have to carry everything on your shoulders!!"
ask a friend. ask several friends! get opinions, make it easy at first because no beginner will succeed with immediate sentence creation and explanation! take inspiration from the hundreds of activities currently residing on this forum alone. don't copy it because you don't know whether its outdated, but make your own, have another person proof-read it.
I'm sorry for my unbelievable rudeness, but we've taken so many steps forward, why is this next one soo difficult?!
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Offline Alyara Arati

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Re: The Unofficial Na’vi Learner Survey
« Reply #83 on: July 24, 2015, 06:49:23 pm »
I think we all need to change the approach we take to teaching.  I know I would be a better teacher if I did as Tstewa suggests. :)

Also, for me personally, I probably need to make up my mind either to make a commitment here, or fade away altogether, instead of being here sporadically. :-X

I'm sure we each have something that we could identify as undesirable that we do routinely, and make an effort to remedy it. :-*

And then there are generalized things that we might do other than beating out a hard and fast curriculum.
For one thing, we could consider some sort of outreach program to attract new (or old) students of Na'vi to the site, perhaps. ???
Learn how to see.  Realize that everything connects to everything else.
~ Leonardo da Vinci

Offline Toruk Makto

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Re: The Unofficial Na’vi Learner Survey
« Reply #84 on: July 24, 2015, 06:49:59 pm »
Administrator dropping in...

Passion for your position is good, but let's keep it friendly,  ma eylan.

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Offline Tìtstewan

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Re: The Unofficial Na’vi Learner Survey
« Reply #85 on: July 24, 2015, 09:17:01 pm »
Well, I am about to improve some stuff in the beginner section. A new guideline is in work that will replace the very old one, and includes some new stuff and points that has been mentioned here.
Also, I am thinking about to improve following threads to make these materials and information better accessible:
If you are having suggestions or ideas that could help to make theses threads more suitable/accessible for beginners, please PM me.

Seiyi irayo nìli.

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Offline Tstewa Ikrantsyìp

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Re: The Unofficial Na’vi Learner Survey
« Reply #86 on: July 24, 2015, 09:56:19 pm »
I must apologise for my previous rudeness, if I have offended anybody. I apologise and I hope I may receive forgiveness.
my only excuse being, that I am so passionate about this community, but so upset at the thought of people leaving, or people not wanting to stay.
we are such an amazing family, so strong and united, and this is what will draw people to the community. one of many reasons. the fact that we are a family, that they can come to and talk with and be happy with and learn a beautiful enchanting language and have fun, and not worry about being judged! :)

I'm so proud of this forum, It's only been a short time I've been part of this amazing group, but I can't imagine leaving it for the life of me. hell, I can almost imagine my funeral rights spoken in Na'vi HRH.

the only way I'm so passionate about this is because despite how truly AMAZING this family is, I know we can also be so much better. each of us has so much to give, and so much to provide, but the only way this forum will continue, is if we fight for it, and improve the things, that can be improved to help increase personal interest.


Hayalovay
Ulte
Eywa Ngahu

P.S - ma Alyara, I have several out-reach ideas I've been considering lately, I would love to discuss them with you and any ideas you yourself might have, along with a series of small projects that could also help to already existing forum persons.
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Offline Tstewa Ikrantsyìp

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Re: The Unofficial Na’vi Learner Survey
« Reply #87 on: July 25, 2015, 09:18:02 pm »
Thank-you for your support ma Blue Elf, it means so much that we both agree on what needs to be done and it's so reassuring we have the same opinion.
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Offline Vawmataw

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Re: The Unofficial Na’vi Learner Survey
« Reply #88 on: July 25, 2015, 09:26:49 pm »
I also support this idea. That would help both the teacher and the student.

Offline Kame Ayyo’koti

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Re: The Unofficial Na’vi Learner Survey
« Reply #89 on: July 26, 2015, 12:33:59 pm »
Over the course of this project I've grown much more aware of how limited my time and energy is. For this reason, and since we've gotten plenty of answers already, I've decided to close the survey at the end of the month (on August 1st). Anyone who still wants to take it should take it soon.
"Your work is to discover your world, and then with all your heart give yourself to it."

Offline Vawmataw

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Re: The Unofficial Na’vi Learner Survey
« Reply #90 on: July 27, 2015, 06:14:39 pm »
What do you think about the proposed teaching/correction guidelines?

One of the suggestions was to have more active members.

This could help the people the forum if we could get more activity. We could receive more easily help and we could practice more our Na'vi.
However, we have a work and a real life...

For this reason, and since we've gotten plenty of answers already, I've decided to close the survey at the end of the month (on August 1st). Anyone who still wants to take it should take it soon.
It's good. :) Don't forget to add the additional answers. ;)

Quote
Over the course of this project I've grown much more aware of how limited my time and energy is.
It's good to know our limits in the contribution of projects.
« Last Edit: July 27, 2015, 06:26:59 pm by Vawmataw »

Offline Tirea Aean

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Re: The Unofficial Na’vi Learner Survey
« Reply #91 on: July 28, 2015, 01:09:02 am »
What do you think about the proposed teaching/correction guidelines?

My teaching / corrections guidelines, personally, are that of the encouragement and positive interaction with the person learning, in the right amount and style. (This is huge)

* Keep a conversation going, with a positive casual vibe.
* Talk like a casual friend instead of a linguist.
* Instead of calling out errors outright, keep the conversation ongoing and positive by finding a nice way to respond to them, repeating what they said in the correct way, and then add to the conversation.
* Make sure they know that they are doing well and improving, or it may not seem like it to them. :D
* Use only positive-tone language with them. Any negative-tone sentence/explanation can be re-written to sound positive. :)
* Just have fun with it!  That's the ultimate goal of all of this anyway. Besides communication, of course. :)

Let's see what happens if everyone here sticks to stuff like that.  I believe the overall vibe of the forum will become very positive and inviting and fun, leading to more people coming and staying and enjoying their time here. Which brings me to...

Quote
One of the suggestions was to have more active members.

This could help the people the forum if we could get more activity. We could receive more easily help and we could practice more our Na'vi.
However, we have a work and a real life...

More people would be awesome!  We just need to as a whole community be as kind and as inviting and welcoming and helpful as possible.  Then more people will come and stay on. (We saw this reason and other reasons why some people never come here. If we who are here solve those, then this problem of not having enough active members will then also be solved.) :)

Quote
For this reason, and since we've gotten plenty of answers already, I've decided to close the survey at the end of the month (on August 1st). Anyone who still wants to take it should take it soon.
It's good. :) Don't forget to add the additional answers. ;)

Yeah, no hurries no worries I like to say. :)


Quote
Quote
Over the course of this project I've grown much more aware of how limited my time and energy is.
It's good to know our limits in the contribution of projects.

I'm still trying to learn this lesson for myself.  I get so involved that it's actually overwhelming.  I should probably sleep now (that it's past 2 AM) ;D
« Last Edit: July 28, 2015, 01:19:04 am by Tirea Aean »

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Offline Tstewa Ikrantsyìp

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Re: The Unofficial Na’vi Learner Survey
« Reply #92 on: July 28, 2015, 01:46:54 am »
(Taking a temporary break from my mourning)
improved activity would really help a lot.
« Last Edit: July 28, 2015, 02:20:37 am by Tstewa Ikrantsyìp »
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Offline Tìtstewan

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Re: The Unofficial Na’vi Learner Survey
« Reply #93 on: July 28, 2015, 04:08:08 am »
Tirea and I are performing a #LNReform2015. That means, improving various stuff and make real some ideas that helps to show guests an active, helpful and friendly place where one have fun and be encouraged to join here.

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Re: The Unofficial Na’vi Learner Survey
« Reply #94 on: July 28, 2015, 09:42:55 am »
If Tirea Aean or yourself ma Tìtstewan ever need any help with anything id be more then happy to assist. the only thing is I don't know about coding, so that's an unfortunate problem
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Offline Vawmataw

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Re: The Unofficial Na’vi Learner Survey
« Reply #95 on: July 28, 2015, 10:37:06 am »
Quote
Ye Teachers’ Guideline

Some of you might want to share your knowledge and help the people. However, we have recently realized that we are not always doing it the right way, and that spoils the experience.

We have made this small guideline based on the suggestions and the recommendations of other members like you. Therefore, these are the values of the community regarding the teaching of the Na’vi language.

We wish that everyone have a positive tone and attitude. That is, we expect respect, courtesy and helpfulness. Talk as a buddy instead of a teacher. Let them know your appreciation and their progress.
Also, find a way to correct the mistakes appropriately. You can find a subtle way or just teach.
Do not turn your post into a correction one or debate about the grammar in a thread.

Finally, there are different types of learners. When teaching or suggesting resources, make sure you know how the person learns best.

No one should expect perfection, but everyone is entitled to respect and courtesy.  Have fun!

Offline Tirea Aean

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Re: The Unofficial Na’vi Learner Survey
« Reply #96 on: July 28, 2015, 11:37:14 am »
Quote
Ye Teachers’ Guideline

Some of you might want to share your knowledge and help the people. However, we have recently realized that we are not always doing it the right way, and that spoils the experience.

We have made this small guideline based on the suggestions and the recommendations of other members like you. Therefore, these are the values of the community regarding the teaching of the Na’vi language.

We wish that everyone have a positive tone and attitude. That is, we expect respect, courtesy and helpfulness. Talk as a buddy instead of a teacher. Let them know your appreciation and their progress.
Also, find a way to correct the mistakes appropriately. You can find a subtle way or just teach.
Do not turn your post into a correction one or debate about the grammar in a thread.

Finally, there are different types of learners. When teaching or suggesting resources, make sure you know how the person learns best.

No one should expect perfection, but everyone is entitled to respect and courtesy.  Have fun!


Seems legit.

Now all we have to do is everyone here put it into practice in our posts. :)

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Offline Vawmataw

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Re: The Unofficial Na’vi Learner Survey
« Reply #97 on: July 28, 2015, 11:54:02 am »
Why not post it as an official guideline (maybe after a minivote)? Otherwise, I wouldn't have written this.

Offline Tirea Aean

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Re: The Unofficial Na’vi Learner Survey
« Reply #98 on: July 28, 2015, 12:03:14 pm »
Oh, I see a sticky post in /beginners

Maybe we could use this also somewhere. Because I do kinda like it especially as a message to the intermediate smuk. Hmm :-\

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Re: The Unofficial Na’vi Learner Survey
« Reply #99 on: July 28, 2015, 12:28:23 pm »
Let's just be super nice and stay very positive in every post we make.  :)



So as I was moving some stuff around, I've been seeing recurring requests for simplicity as old as 2009 December.  People have been coming here and struggling to make sense of the technical tone of our documents and posts since day one.  I think this needs attention.  I'm on it but I don't want to do it alone. 

I'm making a guide but that's only one thing.
(PM me for edit access, I would love to have input by others in the community while developing this).
I'm also doing(slacking on) YouTube.  I'll try to keep the vids friendly and simple too.
(post on the thread to add suggestions and ideas)
EDIT: Also, the LN Wiki still needs to be edited to be an easier read and also to be updated and more complete.

We are all in this together, a family of lovers of Pandora.  There is something to learn, teach, or work on for all of us. :)

#LNReform2015
« Last Edit: July 28, 2015, 03:23:30 pm by Tirea Aean »

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