Author Topic: World map in na'vi  (Read 4039 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Iktíranya

  • Ketuwong
  • *
  • Posts: 2
  • Karma: 0
Re: World map in na'vi
« Reply #20 on: December 25, 2009, 04:08:56 pm »
kaltxi frapo!  ;)

I'm from Croatia... how to translate Croatia to Na'vi?


Well, as far as I know the Croatian word for Croatia (^^) is "Hrvatska", which in my opinion almost sounds like Na'vi in the first place. But maybe you could drop the initial H and go with the "Brazilian" Rr to begin the word. As well as the first a could be replaced by a ä. To get some Na'vian feeling you could as well fit in some ejectives as you go along and perhaps switch the k for a kx.

It would come out something like this: Rrvätskxa

Perhaps not perfect, but still better than nothing ;D

For myself I'm Swedish, and in Swedish Sweden's called Sverige.
So.. how about Tsvayrrìey?

Offline Prrton

  • Palulukan Makto
  • *****
  • *
  • Posts: 2799
  • Karma: 105
  • Rutxe, fmivi. Ftxey fra'u eyawr fuke, ke tsranten.
    • Pìlok leNa'vi a ro MaSempul.org
Re: World map in na'vi
« Reply #21 on: December 26, 2009, 03:09:38 am »
I think the best way of translating names into Na'vi is:

1. Take the name used by the nation's citizens.
2. Examine the word, change it so that it doesn't contain sounds not used in Na'vi, replace them with similar but used sounds.
3. Spell it right.

For "Austria", that would be...

1. Österreich
2. Ö -> Ä, ch -> k
3. Ästärrayk

looks funny.

I completely agree with this approach. My suggestions for consideration by native speakers (in no particular order). This is not a complete/exhaustive list, of course. The underline shows where the Na'vi stress would fall. This can mirror the native pronunciation as close as possible. Native speakers will have to decide.

[NOTE: Long after originally writing this list, I've come back to correct al my "glottal stop" errors. I'm going to be deleting MOST of the apostrophe's in the long (proposed, but welcome to be shot down) country list below. I'm replacing the glottal stops with interstitial periods at the baseline, just as a syllable boundary marker.]:

USA = Yu.E.Sey
Canada = Ka.na.txa or .na.txa
México = Mehiko
Guatemala = Kxa.te.ma.la
Panamá = Pa.na.ma
Costa Rica = Ko.sta Ri.ka
Argentina = Arhenti.na
Ethiopia = Ityo.piya
Fiji = Fizii
Finland = Su.o.mi
France = Frawn (or Frawnsu may be better ?)
Germany = Txoitxlan
Greece = El.latxa
Iceland = I.slan
India = Pxaarat
Ireland = Eyr or Ayrlan
Korea = Hankxuk
China = Tsongwo
Japan = Nihon or Nippon
Thailand = Pxa'te.et Txay
Egypt = Misìr
Croatia = Hì'rä.vaa.tsì.ka
Spain = E.spanya
Switzerland = Helve.ti.ka (this is VERY easy to render in Na'vi and quite regal.)
Hungary = May.a.rorsäk
Armenia = Haya.stan
Bhutan = Txruk Yul
Tibet = Pxo
Israel = Yì.sra.el

Brasil has been discussed a lot. I'd go for either Pra.sil or Pì.ra'sil or Prrsil. I'm not actually sure if Na'vi will allow an initial consonant cluster of [p+r] as a substitute for the beginning [b+r] of Brasil in Portuguese, but I would imagine that the Na'vi could produce it. If [pra] turns out to be disallowed, I'd think that Pì.ra.sil would be the next closest to the native human pronunciation that the Na'vi should also be able to manage. Prrsil would probably be easiest for them (and it's the most exotic ;) ). My English name is actually "Britton". I have the same problem in my name that "Brasil" does.  :'(  I went for "Prrton".

I'm adding some interstitial periods to Ästärrayk >>> Ä.stär'rayk also... just to clarify where the *legal* sounds break down. [Äs] by itself is not possible and I seriously doubt that the vocalic trilled [rr] of Na'vi could occur between [ä] and [ay] without causing some major pronunciation difficulties (both for humans and the Na'vi). ;)

This is an exciting project. I look forward to seeing a complete list compiled by the community.

Fìkìngyä txele nawm leiu nìtxan. Eywa ayngahu!


PS: In rereading Dr. Frommer's phonological restrictions, perhaps initial pr+vowel is not allowed.

Quote
Brasil has been discussed a lot. I'd go for either Pra.sil or Pì.ra'sil or Prrsil. I'm not actually sure if Na'vi will allow an initial consonant cluster of [p+r] as a substitute for the beginning [b+r] of Brasil in Portuguese, but I would imagine that the Na'vi could produce it. If [pra] turns out to be disallowed, I'd think that Pì.ra.sil would be the next closest to the native human pronunciation that the Na'vi should also be able to manage. Prrsil would probably be easiest for them (and it's the most exotic ;) ). My English name is actually "Britton". I have the same problem in my name that "Brasil" does.  :'(  I went for "Prrton".

So maybe Brasil does have to be Prrsil ?

Oe ke omum.

____________________
« Last Edit: January 05, 2010, 01:39:38 am by Prrton »

Offline Beduino

  • 'Eveng
  • ***
  • Posts: 273
  • Karma: 4
  • Eywari menari
Re: World map in na'vi
« Reply #22 on: December 26, 2009, 07:04:17 am »
Nice! I think [pra] is okay, since syllables go for (C)(C)V(C), and can work in any way around it

i.e. (C)V(C), (C)V, etc..

correct me if I'm wrong  ;)
tsun ngal tslam fì'uti srak?

Offline Ean Uniltìranyu

  • Ketuwong
  • *
  • Posts: 11
  • Karma: 0
Re: World map in na'vi
« Reply #23 on: December 26, 2009, 06:00:09 pm »
Kaltxì,

1. English :: United Arab Emirates
2. Arabic :: الامارات العربية المتحدة :: Alemarat Alarabiya Almutahida
3. Na'vi :: älimaratx älarapiyä älmutahìtx

Oel ngati kame,

Ean Unmiltìranyu
« Last Edit: December 28, 2009, 05:47:05 pm by Ean Uniltìranyu »
law ronsem unil mawey

Offline Coda

  • Tawtute
  • *
  • Posts: 68
  • Karma: 2
Re: World map in na'vi
« Reply #24 on: December 27, 2009, 08:11:35 pm »
I completely agree with this approach. My suggestions for consideration by native speakers (in no particular order). This is not a complete/exhaustive list, of course. The underline shows where the Na'vi stress would fall. This can mirror the native pronunciation as close as possible. Native speakers will have to decide.

USA = Yu'E'Sey

Is there any particular reason for the glottal stops between "letters"?  In my experience, most people tend to pronounce "USA" fluidly, without interruption - yuesey.  As long as they're not chanting it while waving a flag around, that is.   ::)

Of course, I'm sure there's also a segment of the population that would be just as happy with merkxä.

Offline Na'rìghawnu

  • Tute
  • ***
  • Posts: 352
  • Karma: 22
Re: World map in na'vi
« Reply #25 on: December 28, 2009, 01:54:50 am »
Germany

Since the pronunciation of our country in the standard language is [ˈdɔɪ̯tʃlant]

I think that Txoìtslan or even Toìtslan [ˈto.ɪ.tslan] may better fit than Txoitxlan.
« Last Edit: December 28, 2009, 01:56:22 am by Harìghawnu »

Offline Prrton

  • Palulukan Makto
  • *****
  • *
  • Posts: 2799
  • Karma: 105
  • Rutxe, fmivi. Ftxey fra'u eyawr fuke, ke tsranten.
    • Pìlok leNa'vi a ro MaSempul.org
Re: World map in na'vi
« Reply #26 on: December 28, 2009, 02:44:55 am »
I completely agree with this approach. My suggestions for consideration by native speakers (in no particular order). This is not a complete/exhaustive list, of course. The underline shows where the Na'vi stress would fall. This can mirror the native pronunciation as close as possible. Native speakers will have to decide.

USA = Yu'E'Sey

Is there any particular reason for the glottal stops between "letters"?  In my experience, most people tend to pronounce "USA" fluidly, without interruption - yuesey.  As long as they're not chanting it while waving a flag around, that is.   ::)

Of course, I'm sure there's also a segment of the population that would be just as happy with merkxä.

LOVE the merkxä;D  Sìltsan nìtxan nang!!

The only reason that I stuck the apostrophes in is that I was trying to mark the legal phonological boundaries (better phoneticians than I, oeru txoa livu). As for Yu'E'Sey, if it were not "divided up" this way the sound 'ES would break the rules established by Dr. Frommer (a syllable ending in "s" is not allowed). The splitting up of the syllables is also a small nod to the fact that "U.S.A." is an abbreviation in English. But, you're correct that practically speaking it wouldn't make a huge difference (if any, except in a few cases). I'm trying to think like a Na'vi who cannot speak English. Just like they can't pronounce B, D, G (100% correctly) they'd likely have trouble with "illegal" final consonants.

Offline Prrton

  • Palulukan Makto
  • *****
  • *
  • Posts: 2799
  • Karma: 105
  • Rutxe, fmivi. Ftxey fra'u eyawr fuke, ke tsranten.
    • Pìlok leNa'vi a ro MaSempul.org
Re: World map in na'vi
« Reply #27 on: December 28, 2009, 03:00:18 am »
Germany

Since the pronunciation of our country in the standard language is [ˈdɔɪ̯tʃlant]

I think that Txoìtslan or even Toìtslan [ˈto.ɪ.tslan] may better fit than Txoitxlan.


Whatever the native German speakers who've mastered a sense of Na'vi phonology and come to consensus think is automatically the right answer by me!  ;)  I agree that the final syllable as [tslan] is MUCH better than what I proposed earlier. Honestly, I didn't think about it at too much length. Tx- might be too strong an option as a substitution for "D". Those who know better than I will have to decide. I was using -kxo for the final "go" of "Nippon-go", but now that I pause to think about it and pronounce it out loud, nìNippo'ngo is much much better.

Irayo! sì 'Tschüß'!

Offline Coda

  • Tawtute
  • *
  • Posts: 68
  • Karma: 2
Re: World map in na'vi
« Reply #28 on: December 28, 2009, 03:22:48 am »
The only reason that I stuck the apostrophes in is that I was trying to mark the legal phonological boundaries (better phoneticians than I, oeru txoa livu). As for Yu'E'Sey, if it were not "divided up" this way the sound 'ES would break the rules established by Dr. Frommer (a syllable ending in "s" is not allowed). The splitting up of the syllables is also a small nod to the fact that "U.S.A." is an abbreviation in English. But, you're correct that practically speaking it wouldn't make a huge difference (if any, except in a few cases). I'm trying to think like a Na'vi who cannot speak English. Just like they can't pronounce B, D, G (100% correctly) they'd likely have trouble with "illegal" final consonants.

Oeri tslam ngal lumpe simi slä ni'inglisi tuteri yuesay plltxe ulte yu'e'say ke plltxe.

Na'vi practice aside, I still think yuesay is preferable, since the syllables in Na'vi break out to yu-e-say, not yu-es-ay, and therefore don't break li'usempul's rules.  Such as they are so far, at least.

Offline Prrton

  • Palulukan Makto
  • *****
  • *
  • Posts: 2799
  • Karma: 105
  • Rutxe, fmivi. Ftxey fra'u eyawr fuke, ke tsranten.
    • Pìlok leNa'vi a ro MaSempul.org
Re: World map in na'vi
« Reply #29 on: December 29, 2009, 03:18:16 am »
The only reason that I stuck the apostrophes in is that I was trying to mark the legal phonological boundaries (better phoneticians than I, oeru txoa livu). As for Yu'E'Sey, if it were not "divided up" this way the sound 'ES would break the rules established by Dr. Frommer (a syllable ending in "s" is not allowed). The splitting up of the syllables is also a small nod to the fact that "U.S.A." is an abbreviation in English. But, you're correct that practically speaking it wouldn't make a huge difference (if any, except in a few cases). I'm trying to think like a Na'vi who cannot speak English. Just like they can't pronounce B, D, G (100% correctly) they'd likely have trouble with "illegal" final consonants.

Oeri tslam ngal lumpe simi slä ni'inglisi tuteri yuesay plltxe ulte yu'e'say ke plltxe.

Na'vi practice aside, I still think yuesay is preferable, since the syllables in Na'vi break out to yu-e-say, not yu-es-ay, and therefore don't break li'usempul's rules.  Such as they are so far, at least.

Fra'u sìltsan lu txo fraporu ketìtslam ke lu nìwotx, srak? ;) Slä, ke fpìl oel futa fì'u tsun "Yuesay" lu. "Yuesey" tìplltxepam amuiä nìngay ke lu srak?

Eywa ngahu

Offline Brainiac

  • Moderator Emeritus
  • Palulukan Makto
  • *****
  • Posts: 2262
  • Karma: 62
  • Before me things created were none.
Re: World map in na'vi
« Reply #30 on: December 29, 2009, 04:01:46 am »
The only reason that I stuck the apostrophes in is that I was trying to mark the legal phonological boundaries (better phoneticians than I, oeru txoa livu). As for Yu'E'Sey, if it were not "divided up" this way the sound 'ES would break the rules established by Dr. Frommer (a syllable ending in "s" is not allowed). The splitting up of the syllables is also a small nod to the fact that "U.S.A." is an abbreviation in English. But, you're correct that practically speaking it wouldn't make a huge difference (if any, except in a few cases). I'm trying to think like a Na'vi who cannot speak English. Just like they can't pronounce B, D, G (100% correctly) they'd likely have trouble with "illegal" final consonants.

Oeri tslam ngal lumpe simi slä ni'inglisi tuteri yuesay plltxe ulte yu'e'say ke plltxe.

Na'vi practice aside, I still think yuesay is preferable, since the syllables in Na'vi break out to yu-e-say, not yu-es-ay, and therefore don't break li'usempul's rules.  Such as they are so far, at least.

Fra'u sìltsan lu txo fraporu ketìtslam ke lu nìwotx, srak? ;) Slä, ke fpìl oel futa fì'u tsun "Yuesay" lu. "Yuesey" tìplltxepam amuiä nìngay ke lu srak?

Eywa ngahu

Oel komum txokefyaw, slä oel omeium fi'u tìplltxeyä ngati lu sìltsan.
Speed is a ppoor sbubstitue fo accurancy

Check out my blogif my presence on this board isn't weird enough for you.

Offline Coda

  • Tawtute
  • *
  • Posts: 68
  • Karma: 2
Re: World map in na'vi
« Reply #31 on: December 29, 2009, 11:55:15 am »

Fra'u sìltsan lu txo fraporu ketìtslam ke lu nìwotx, srak? ;) Slä, ke fpìl oel futa fì'u tsun "Yuesay" lu. "Yuesey" tìplltxepam amuiä nìngay ke lu srak?

Eywa ngahu

Oeyä tikxawng limu.  Yuesey tiplltxepam amuiä lu.  Irayo srung simu fte, ma Prrton.

Offline Brainiac

  • Moderator Emeritus
  • Palulukan Makto
  • *****
  • Posts: 2262
  • Karma: 62
  • Before me things created were none.
Re: World map in na'vi
« Reply #32 on: December 29, 2009, 12:04:37 pm »

Fra'u sìltsan lu txo fraporu ketìtslam ke lu nìwotx, srak? ;) Slä, ke fpìl oel futa fì'u tsun "Yuesay" lu. "Yuesey" tìplltxepam amuiä nìngay ke lu srak?

Eywa ngahu

Oeyä tikxawng limu.  Yuesey tiplltxepam amuiä lu.  Irayo srung simu fte, ma Prrton.
Oe ketslam, slä oel omängum oe kelu skxawng :)
ngal srung si oeti srak?
Speed is a ppoor sbubstitue fo accurancy

Check out my blogif my presence on this board isn't weird enough for you.

Offline Robert Nantangä Tirea

  • Taronyu
  • ****
  • *
  • Posts: 702
  • Karma: 52
  • Wintxu ngeyä tirea!
    • Youtube Channel
Re: World map in na'vi
« Reply #33 on: December 29, 2009, 12:49:28 pm »

Oeyä tikxawng limu.  Yuesey tiplltxepam amuiä lu.  Irayo srung simu fte, ma Prrton.
Oe ketslam, slä oel omängum oe kelu skxawng :)
ngal srung si oeti srak?


Srane! oe srung tseiun.

Firstly he is saying he was momenteraly stupid (made a mistake). Then he agrees "yuesey" is fairly spoken (correctly said). Then he thanks Prrton for the help.

Literally: "I (moronic?) was. Yuesey (spoken?) fairly is. Thank you help (?) so that, to Prrton."

How does a man choose between fresh and fly?

COSPLAY LIKE A BOSS!

NotW Celebrity #11!

Offline Coda

  • Tawtute
  • *
  • Posts: 68
  • Karma: 2
Re: World map in na'vi
« Reply #34 on: December 29, 2009, 01:10:49 pm »
Oeyä tikxawng limu.
I-GEN NOM-bad was.
My bad.

tiplltxepam
NOM-speak-sound
pronunciation

I'm not sure my last sentence is correct - I meant to say "Thanks for the help, Prrton."

BTW, oeri tutean ke lu.
« Last Edit: December 29, 2009, 01:14:47 pm by Coda »

Offline Prrton

  • Palulukan Makto
  • *****
  • *
  • Posts: 2799
  • Karma: 105
  • Rutxe, fmivi. Ftxey fra'u eyawr fuke, ke tsranten.
    • Pìlok leNa'vi a ro MaSempul.org
Re: World map in na'vi
« Reply #35 on: December 29, 2009, 03:56:14 pm »
Oeyä tikxawng limu.

Sìlronsem nìtxan! Kxawm, fpi ral "my mischief"yä sìltsan nìwotx?!  ;D

Very clever. Perhaps perfect for the meaning "my mischief" = "my bad."

Quote
BTW, oeri tutean ke lu.

Txele asìltsan nìtxan nìmun!, ma tsmuke!

Fte ayoel txoat ätxäle s-iv-i ke zene, txo ayoel ke omum nìlaw futa 'awtute tute.an fu tute.e lu tsakrr "tute"t fu "tsmuk"ti ta kxam ayoel ke p-iv-lltxe, srak?

If we don't know unambiguously if someone is a male or a female then shouldn't we say "person" or "sibling", so that we don't need to ask for forgiveness?

________________________

Offline Brainiac

  • Moderator Emeritus
  • Palulukan Makto
  • *****
  • Posts: 2262
  • Karma: 62
  • Before me things created were none.
Re: World map in na'vi
« Reply #36 on: December 29, 2009, 04:37:26 pm »
Come on people, let's keep it on topic!
Speed is a ppoor sbubstitue fo accurancy

Check out my blogif my presence on this board isn't weird enough for you.

Offline Prrton

  • Palulukan Makto
  • *****
  • *
  • Posts: 2799
  • Karma: 105
  • Rutxe, fmivi. Ftxey fra'u eyawr fuke, ke tsranten.
    • Pìlok leNa'vi a ro MaSempul.org
Re: World map in na'vi
« Reply #37 on: December 31, 2009, 03:03:05 pm »
Come on people, let's keep it on topic!

Oeru txoa livu. 'Ittìkawng oeyä lolängu nìwotx  :-[

<Oe.ru txoa l-iv-u. 'It.tì.kawng oe.yä l-ol-äng-u nìwotx>

" 'It.tì.kawng kxawm " "minor evil" ("bad") sl-iv-u srak?

Ooops. Did I just do it again?

Watsington
Oregan
Kälìfornia
Navätxa

Känzasì
Teksasì
'Ilinoi
Mitsigän
Nawsì Txakota
Sausì Txakota
Nepra'ska
'Aytxaho
'Ay'owa
Wì'skonsìn

Niu Mexsiko
'Ärizona

Lwiziäna
Mìsìsìpi
Tennasii

Vrr'tsinya
Nawsì Kärolayna
Sausì Kärolayna (tseng a tirea Prrtonä kolä ne fì'kifkey ayoeyä)
Tsawtsì'a
Flawritxa
Pwerto Riko
Txi. Si.
Märilän


Someone else please take over. I'm trying to do this from memory ('cause I'm a bit lazy today).

Hokkaytxoo
Hontsiu
Sikoku
Kìyuutsìuu

Wahaka
Txe 'Efe
Yukatan

Oeru txoa livu...ulte Zìsìtyä Sngä'ikrr Alefpom Ayngaru Leiu!


_______________________

Offline Numeie

  • Tawtute
  • *
  • Posts: 72
  • Karma: 1
Re: World map in na'vi
« Reply #38 on: January 03, 2010, 06:00:45 pm »
<snip>

Spain = E'spanya

<snip>

Brasil has been discussed a lot. I'd go for either Pra'sil or Pì'ra'sil or Prrsil. I'm not actually sure if Na'vi will allow an initial consonant cluster of [p+r] as a substitute for the beginning [b+r] of Brasil in Portuguese, but I would imagine that the Na'vi could produce it.
Espanya (which coincidentally is also the Catalan for Spain). In Spanish the "Es" is one syllable; in Na'vi you have to split the syllables differently, but that's no reason to insert a glottal stop.

According to Frommer's LL post "prr" cannot start a word. But neither can "pll", and that appears at the start of a word in the vocab. I've started a thread about this elsewhere.
Hispanohablantes, si queréis contribuir al wiki de Avatar en español os lo agradecería. http://es.james-camerons-avatar.wikia.com/

Offline Prrton

  • Palulukan Makto
  • *****
  • *
  • Posts: 2799
  • Karma: 105
  • Rutxe, fmivi. Ftxey fra'u eyawr fuke, ke tsranten.
    • Pìlok leNa'vi a ro MaSempul.org
Re: World map in na'vi
« Reply #39 on: January 03, 2010, 06:24:04 pm »
<snip>

Spain = E'spanya

<snip>

Brasil has been discussed a lot. I'd go for either Pra'sil or Pì'ra'sil or Prrsil. I'm not actually sure if Na'vi will allow an initial consonant cluster of [p+r] as a substitute for the beginning [b+r] of Brasil in Portuguese, but I would imagine that the Na'vi could produce it.
Espanya (which coincidentally is also the Catalan for Spain). In Spanish the "Es" is one syllable; in Na'vi you have to split the syllables differently, but that's no reason to insert a glottal stop.

According to Frommer's LL post "prr" cannot start a word. But neither can "pll", and that appears at the start of a word in the vocab. I've started a thread about this elsewhere.

Oeru txoa livu, ma Numeie. Your are completely correct about the glottal stop. Not required. (It might end up in there from time to time as an "accent feature" when Na'vi speak English or español (wild theorization)), But certainly not required. I simply was trying to point out where the syllable breaks are allowed and not allowed. For my purposes, a simple interim "." (as in the Catelan word « paral.lel » should suffice. I'll go back and make the substitution edit in the record.

Irayo nìtxan!

ta Prrton (a po.ri nì.l-us-am ke tì.tsun l-äng-u)
  :'(

("from Prrton (who is apparently incapable of existing)")

Slä, fpi ".prr.te'" lu peu?...

______________________________

 

Become LearnNavi's friend on Facebook Follow LearnNavi on Twitter! Watch LearnNavi's videos on YouTube

SMF 2.0.17 | SMF © 2017, Simple Machines | XHTML | RSS | WAP2 | Site Rules

LearnNavi is not affiliated with the official Avatar website,
James Cameron, LightStorm Entertainment or The Walt Disney Company.
All trademarks and servicemarks are the properties of their respective owners.
Images in the LearnNavi.org Forums and Gallery may not be used without permission.

LearnNavi Affiliates:
ToS

LearnNavi is the community to learn Na'vi, the Avatar Language
"A place where real friendships are made." -Paul Frommer

AvatarMeet | Learn Na'vi Forum | Learn Na'vi Wiki | Na'viteri

LearnNavi