Author Topic: Ejectives  (Read 31599 times)

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Offline Erimeyz

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Re: Ejectives
« Reply #60 on: January 21, 2010, 04:42:36 pm »
By soft I take it you mean smooth with them flowing into the vowels? That would go against Frommer's word, he said the vowel comes as soon after as possible, in other words it flows and should be soft.

There's smooth and there's soft.  Smooth vs. choppy is how quickly the vowel follows the ejection.  Soft vs. loud is how forcefully you expel air when you eject.  Frommer says "Hold your breath, then make a T sound as loud as you can, followed by a vowel as quick as you can."

So: smooth and loud is the way to go.

Loud contrasts with plosives.  Soft could get them sounding nearly the same.

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Offline kewnya txamew'itan

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Re: Ejectives
« Reply #61 on: January 22, 2010, 12:51:53 pm »
Ahh, sorry. I misunderstood, oeru txoa livu.
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Offline Txon Taronyu

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Re: Ejectives
« Reply #62 on: January 22, 2010, 03:07:35 pm »
I get them now
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Offline ShadowedSin

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Re: Ejectives
« Reply #63 on: January 26, 2010, 04:09:26 am »
Simple question, the ejectives are heavy close mouth aspirations?
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Offline kewnya txamew'itan

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Re: Ejectives
« Reply #64 on: January 26, 2010, 12:50:00 pm »
No, aspirated plosives use air from the lungs not glottis. This audio clip should explain it (although the site's down at the moment).
« Last Edit: January 30, 2010, 04:20:24 am by tìkawngä mungeyu »
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Offline ShadowedSin

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Re: Ejectives
« Reply #65 on: January 27, 2010, 04:33:31 am »
No, aspirated plosives use air from the lungs not glottis. This audio clip should explain it (although the site's down at the moment).

The link does not appear to be working. So it is a closed throat glottal sound?
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Offline kewnya txamew'itan

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Re: Ejectives
« Reply #66 on: January 30, 2010, 04:21:12 am »
Sorry, the site was down and I accidentally copied the DNS error's address into the link tag, I've fixed it.

Sort of, annis explains it better than I can.
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Offline Tìrol'ite

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Re: Ejectives
« Reply #67 on: January 30, 2010, 09:13:53 am »
As a phonetics nerd, I'm rather dismayed to learn I'm having trouble with a couple of the ejectives.  Kx seems to be the easiest for me.  I can get Tx about 60% of the time, but I'm having serious trouble with Px.  I'm trying right now to make the sound more effectively (and I'm so glad my roommates aren't home... I'm sure I sound like a madwoman).  Is it helpful to some of you to stretch out the surface of your lips to make the skin tighter to help the pop, if that makes any sense? 

Offline wm.annis

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Re: Ejectives
« Reply #68 on: January 30, 2010, 09:23:47 am »
As a phonetics nerd, I'm rather dismayed to learn I'm having trouble with a couple of the ejectives.  Kx seems to be the easiest for me.  I can get Tx about 60% of the time, but I'm having serious trouble with Px. 

Then the irony will surely please you!  Typologically speaking, ejective p is one of the rarer ejective stops in human languages.  :)

Regarding your roommates — my college roommates survived me working on the voiced aspirates of Sanskrit for a few weeks, with, they assure me, only minimal psychological scarring.

Keep at it.  The ejectives will be second nature in no time.
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Offline Tìrol'ite

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Re: Ejectives
« Reply #69 on: January 30, 2010, 09:29:17 am »
Regarding your roommates — my college roommates survived me working on the voiced aspirates of Sanskrit for a few weeks, with, they assure me, only minimal psychological scarring.

Oh, jealousy!  I wish my school offered Sanskrit.  I'm going to have to wait until grad school to get into anything interesting, language-wise.

(Sorry, done derailing the thread)

Offline täftxuyu

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Re: Ejectives
« Reply #70 on: January 31, 2010, 01:58:57 am »
If you know how to beatbox at all, the ejectives sound verrry similar to your 3 basic drumkit sounds if you are using only air from your mouth.  You should feel your throat close so the only air you have is in your mouth.

tx should sound just like the hi-hat without any hissing after the "t" part of it, kx should sound like your snare (I don't actually play the drums lol, so it might be a tom? Am I making that up?) and px is your bass drum.

Once you have made your 'drum noise' you just have to keep saying the word really quickly afterward.

Anyway, just a similarity I found that might make it much easier for some people.
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Offline Tìrol'ite

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Re: Ejectives
« Reply #71 on: January 31, 2010, 07:50:06 am »
If you know how to beatbox at all, the ejectives sound verrry similar to your 3 basic drumkit sounds if you are using only air from your mouth.  You should feel your throat close so the only air you have is in your mouth.

tx should sound just like the hi-hat without any hissing after the "t" part of it, kx should sound like your snare (I don't actually play the drums lol, so it might be a tom? Am I making that up?) and px is your bass drum.

Once you have made your 'drum noise' you just have to keep saying the word really quickly afterward.

Anyway, just a similarity I found that might make it much easier for some people.

Heh, you're right!  At least about the hi-hat and snare.  When I do the bass drum, though, it's not the same kind of popping P as the Px.  It's resonant, has a vocal component and never actually leaves the mouth. 

Offline täftxuyu

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Re: Ejectives
« Reply #72 on: January 31, 2010, 11:10:30 am »
Quote
When I do the bass drum, though, it's not the same kind of popping P as the Px.  It's resonant, has a vocal component and never actually leaves the mouth.

Well you have to do it as if you are just using your lips.  Its sort of a muted or soft bass I guess.  But at least the px and tx are taken care of in that way! Once you get those 2 you can figure out how the px should sound. ;D 
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Offline whipback

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Re: Ejectives
« Reply #73 on: April 19, 2010, 05:59:47 pm »
  Hello.  I am from Nebraska so I have a mid-west American accent, and when I say 'uh-oh' I don't really feel the glottal stop.  There is a pause, but I don't feel what is happening in my throat.  I am saying this because I've been having a lot of problems with the glottal stop and the ejectives.  When I try and say Na'vi I just pause between the 'a' and the 'v' and when I try to pronounce the ejectives I get no pop(unless if I accidentally make it into a click), and I am kind of holding my breath awkwardly.  As a result I have no air left to keep pronouncing a word. I have listened to a lot of ejectives, and I've read a lot of descriptions on how to pronounce the ejectives on both this website and other websites and I just can't get it.  Any help???
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It means something like actions speak louder than words and the him here is palulukan.(corrections would be greatly appreciated)

Offline kewnya txamew'itan

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Re: Ejectives
« Reply #74 on: April 20, 2010, 02:02:56 am »
Have you tried the method Frommer used to teach an interviewer and tried saying a k/t/p as loudly as you can with you breath held?

If you do that then release your breath and carry on you should get the ejectives.
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Offline täftxuyu

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Re: Ejectives
« Reply #75 on: April 20, 2010, 08:11:35 am »
above poster has it right. That should work for you because you're forced to use the air in your mouth, not lungs to make the noise. That's why it makes the 'popping' noise.  It should negate your long vowels :)
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Offline Kätsyín te Zotxekay Tsyal’itan

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Re: Ejectives
« Reply #76 on: April 20, 2010, 08:28:28 am »
Have you tried the method Frommer used to teach an interviewer and tried saying a k/t/p as loudly as you can with you breath held?

If you do that then release your breath and carry on you should get the ejectives.

For those of you that haven't seen that interview, here it is on Youtube.



Frommer's explanation of ejectives begins at 3:30 in the video.
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Offline whipback

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Re: Ejectives
« Reply #77 on: April 20, 2010, 03:35:54 pm »
  Thank you so much! Sorry for the inconvenience if that video is posted in a easy to find spot!  I think what really helped me is hearing him pronounce the /t'/ over and over again.  Thanks again!
"Do not go where the path may lead, go instead where there is no path and leave a trail."

Ralph Waldo Emerson

Rawke poyä mokrimaw slä terkupyu poyä maw taronyu.

It means something like actions speak louder than words and the him here is palulukan.(corrections would be greatly appreciated)

Offline Rangtsulfätu

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Re: Ejectives
« Reply #78 on: April 20, 2010, 05:55:05 pm »
Oel ngaru irayo seiyi, ma Tukruyä Tsamsiyu.

I have seen this video a while back, but it helps me much more now I understand most of the words. But it still amazes me how fast Zoe Saldana and karyu Pawl can speak in Na'vi. If it wasn't for the sentence being written on the board, I wouldn't have understood a word he said.
« Last Edit: April 20, 2010, 07:55:24 pm by Swirä Akawng »
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Offline Kätsyín te Zotxekay Tsyal’itan

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Re: Ejectives
« Reply #79 on: April 21, 2010, 12:49:36 pm »
Once you get lenition down, the rest of the language comes easily. Don't get me wrong, except for a few phrases I can't just start speaking in Na'vi, but I'm a lot farther along than I was when I started.

And don't just thank me, thank everyone that taught me what I know.
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