Author Topic: emphasis on which syllable  (Read 1748 times)

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Offline omumyu

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emphasis on which syllable
« on: December 29, 2009, 02:39:18 pm »
In na'vi there are many words with ' in them.  Does this call for emlphasis on the following syllable?  Also, if this is the case, which syllable does the emphasis fall on if there are no indicators?

Offline omängum fra'uti

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Re: emphasis on which syllable
« Reply #1 on: December 29, 2009, 02:44:33 pm »
No, ' is a glottal stop, and is treated as a consonant sound by the language.

Some people have put together word lists which include IPA notation of the pronunciation, and in that case the ' mark in IPA indicates stress, but that is because IPA has a different way to express a glottal stop.
Ftxey lu nga tokx ftxey lu nga tirea? Lu oe tìkeftxo.
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Offline omumyu

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Re: emphasis on which syllable
« Reply #2 on: December 29, 2009, 02:49:44 pm »
nang! so then how can you tell which syllable to put emphasis on?

Offline omängum fra'uti

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Re: emphasis on which syllable
« Reply #3 on: December 29, 2009, 02:54:17 pm »
The word list from the survival guide gave stresses with underlined syllables, and that is the basis for the word lists that do include the stress indication.  The pocket guide has IPA notation with stress, as does Taronyu's dictionary.
Ftxey lu nga tokx ftxey lu nga tirea? Lu oe tìkeftxo.
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Offline Na'rìghawnu

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Re: emphasis on which syllable
« Reply #4 on: December 31, 2009, 02:21:52 am »
The stress-marks in the Pocket guide (and the now removed ones in Taronyus dictionary) are in most cases quite doubtfull ones (as discussed in this threat: http://forum.learnnavi.org/index.php?topic=341.30).

The underlining in the Survival guide shows stress (accented syllabels) to some words.
Dr. Frommer said about stress, that

Quote
Word stress in Na’vi is unpredictable and distinctive. Stress must thus be specified for each word. (In learning materials only, the stressed syllable in a word is underlined.)

E.g. tute ‘person’, tute ‘female person’

Does this mean, that any word, which has no underlined part in the Survival guide doesn't have got any accent?
I think, this very well could be the fact, since also some (or maybe even many) human languages also have accented words along with unaccented ones. In German e. g. this even is distinctive, since the Englisch "a" and "one" are the same word in German ("ein"), they are discerned just by stress: "a man" = "ein Mann" (with the "ein" unaccented) vs. "one man" = "ein Mann" (with an stressed "ein"). Well, we don't have many words of this kind in German, but nevertheless: they exist. In Japanese - as for a way better example - many words have accents but there are also many words, which doen't: chuugoku (China) or doitsu (Germany) have got an accent on the first syllable (it means the pich drops after the first syllable), but amerika (America/USA) doesn't have got an accent (it means the pich rises after the first syllable and never drops inside this word).

My question is: What about the accent of all words in the survival guide list, that got no underlined part. Do they have got an accent too (without letting us know, where it may be) or are they just words without any accent?

 
« Last Edit: December 31, 2009, 02:24:17 am by Harìghawnu »

Offline wm.annis

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Re: emphasis on which syllable
« Reply #5 on: December 31, 2009, 08:46:50 pm »
My question is: What about the accent of all words in the survival guide list, that got no underlined part. Do they have got an accent too (without letting us know, where it may be) or are they just words without any accent?

Based on Frommer's pronunciation of certain words and phrases in interviews, it sure looks to me like the final syllable gets the stress unless otherwise indicated.  For example, kaltxì is written with no underline in the Activist Survival Guide, and Frommer very clearly accents the final syllable.  Same thing with kxanì.
'Awa lì'fya ke tam kawkrr.
A Na'vi Reference Grammar

Offline Taronyu

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Re: emphasis on which syllable
« Reply #6 on: December 31, 2009, 09:08:29 pm »
I've thought long and hard about this, too.

The problem isn't only that we don't have stress for many words, but that the survival guide sometimes wrongly marks stress. Atokirina' springs readily to mind: it should be atokirina'.

I don't know what to do here. I initially had all of the stress from Karye Amawey's list, but I removed those. Now i have 1/4 of the stress marks (I haven't finished adding them) from the PG, but I don't know whether I should, having seen the movie.

So, I think I might just include the PG ones with a disclaimer, as that is official, even if the actors pronounced things differently.

I've emailed Frommer about this, about a week ago.

Offline Na'rìghawnu

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Re: emphasis on which syllable
« Reply #7 on: January 01, 2010, 01:54:37 am »
Quote
it sure looks to me like the final syllable gets the stress unless otherwise indicated.

So, why some words have got an underlining in the last syllable? If NO underlining would mean, that automatically the last syllable gets the stress, so why to underline this last syllable in some words, e. g. tanhì, tenkrr, kllfrivo' and others? Doesn't make so much sense to me ...



Offline wm.annis

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Re: emphasis on which syllable
« Reply #8 on: January 01, 2010, 01:59:22 am »
Quote
it sure looks to me like the final syllable gets the stress unless otherwise indicated.

So, why some words have got an underlining in the last syllable? If NO underlining would mean, that automatically the last syllable gets the stress, so why to underline this last syllable in some words, e. g. tanhì, tenkrr, kllfrivo' and others? Doesn't make so much sense to me ...

I agree.  A good number of the words with a marked final accents seem to be compounds, though, where there might be some confusion.

I will be happier to have the official dictionary.
'Awa lì'fya ke tam kawkrr.
A Na'vi Reference Grammar

Offline Tskxäozì Ewaoe

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Re: emphasis on which syllable
« Reply #9 on: January 03, 2010, 01:11:24 am »
E.g. Na'vi is pronounced: Nah. Vih. Yes, with the fullstops in, though you say it fast.

 

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