Author Topic: Feedback Wanted - Beginners' Guide Phonetics  (Read 1112 times)

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Offline Erimeyz

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Feedback Wanted - Beginners' Guide Phonetics
« on: January 24, 2010, 10:05:44 pm »
I've started working on a beginners' guide.  I've completed the section on orthography and phonetics (i.e. how to read and speak Na'vi words).  I would very much like your feedback.  Yes, I mean you.

Experienced learners, especially the linguists among us: Am I accurately describing the sounds?  Am I providing the right examples and instructions to help beginners reproduce them correctly?

Beginning learners: Do my instructions make sense?  Are they helpful?

Everyone: Is it easy to read and easy to follow?  Does the presentation "flow" well?  Do you have any suggestions?  Do you have any corrections?

Thanks in advance for your comments.  The two pages of the guide dealing with pronunciation are here: Letters and Sounds and More Letters and Sounds.  If you're interested to see where I plan on going with the guide, a sketch outline is here.

  - Eri

(Edit: updated links)
« Last Edit: January 25, 2010, 11:41:23 am by Erimeyz »

Offline SanguineEpitaph

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Re: Feedback Wanted - Beginners' Guide Phonetics
« Reply #1 on: January 24, 2010, 11:43:02 pm »
This guy is absolutely amazing. I will keep it bookmarked for reference whenever I need help with some of the phonetics. :)

There was a little ambiguity with the "ew" dipthong...I read that it was like "heyo", but the guide kind of confused me a little.
Other than that it is AMAZING. :)
Kuarŏ na nama tanayi cawŏŏt, kuo nim zaosmaŏt.
"Out of what crypt they crawl, I cannot tell."

Offline Erimeyz

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Re: Feedback Wanted - Beginners' Guide Phonetics
« Reply #2 on: January 25, 2010, 12:16:05 am »
This guy is absolutely amazing. I will keep it bookmarked for reference whenever I need help with some of the phonetics. :)

There was a little ambiguity with the "ew" dipthong...I read that it was like "heyo", but the guide kind of confused me a little.
Other than that it is AMAZING. :)

Thanks for your feedback!

I think the "heyo" example came from an early version of some of the Learn Na'vi materials, and has been copied around ever since.  I've never thought it was helpful or accurate... I think it's accurate if you speak with a particular English accent, but it certainly doesn't match my regional dialect.  I'll need the help of some of the linguists to know if what I've got in my beginners' guide is any better.

If you have any suggestions for improving the "ew" section, please let me know!  Confusion is my enemy and I wish to utterly crush it wherever it rears its ugly head.

  - Eri

Offline Nìwotxkrr Tìyawn

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Re: Feedback Wanted - Beginners' Guide Phonetics
« Reply #3 on: January 26, 2010, 08:08:04 pm »
I think that something better than "heyo" is need for "ew", I don't think there are really any English words to describe it correctly. From my understand "ew" sounds more like "eh-oo" but as one sound. I could be wrong but I think it's right considering that the previous word "neu" was changed to "new".
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Offline SanguineEpitaph

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Re: Feedback Wanted - Beginners' Guide Phonetics
« Reply #4 on: January 26, 2010, 08:26:02 pm »
When I see the "ew" dipthong I usually pronounce it "ay (as in lay) - oh"...
Kuarŏ na nama tanayi cawŏŏt, kuo nim zaosmaŏt.
"Out of what crypt they crawl, I cannot tell."

Offline Nìwotxkrr Tìyawn

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Re: Feedback Wanted - Beginners' Guide Phonetics
« Reply #5 on: January 26, 2010, 08:28:19 pm »
When I see the "ew" dipthong I usually pronounce it "ay (as in lay) - oh"...
My palulukan is going to eat you...
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Offline SanguineEpitaph

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Re: Feedback Wanted - Beginners' Guide Phonetics
« Reply #6 on: January 27, 2010, 03:33:15 pm »
When I see the "ew" dipthong I usually pronounce it "ay (as in lay) - oh"...
My palulukan is going to eat you...

I don't follow....but that would NOT be good!! D: xD
Kuarŏ na nama tanayi cawŏŏt, kuo nim zaosmaŏt.
"Out of what crypt they crawl, I cannot tell."

Offline wm.annis

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Re: Feedback Wanted - Beginners' Guide Phonetics
« Reply #7 on: January 27, 2010, 03:40:23 pm »
When I see the "ew" dipthong I usually pronounce it "ay (as in lay) - oh"...
My palulukan is going to eat you...

I don't follow....but that would NOT be good!! D: xD

The Na'vi e is never, ever the ay in lay.  It is only the "eh" sound in set.  So, ew is something like eh-oo (with the "h" in there marking the vowel sound, not a real "h").
'Awa lì'fya ke tam kawkrr.
A Na'vi Reference Grammar

Offline Erimeyz

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Re: Feedback Wanted - Beginners' Guide Phonetics
« Reply #8 on: January 27, 2010, 04:56:31 pm »
When I see the "ew" dipthong I usually pronounce it "ay (as in lay) - oh"...
My palulukan is going to eat you...

I don't follow....but that would NOT be good!! D: xD

The Na'vi e is never, ever the ay in lay.  It is only the "eh" sound in set.  So, ew is something like eh-oo (with the "h" in there marking the vowel sound, not a real "h").

The confusion comes from the description of ew as "heyo" found in some places.  In some British accents, that's close to correct.  In most American accents, it sounds like SanguineEpitaph describes it above, which unfortunately is very incorrect.

  - Eri

Offline SanguineEpitaph

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Re: Feedback Wanted - Beginners' Guide Phonetics
« Reply #9 on: January 27, 2010, 07:55:35 pm »
When I see the "ew" dipthong I usually pronounce it "ay (as in lay) - oh"...
My palulukan is going to eat you...

I don't follow....but that would NOT be good!! D: xD

The Na'vi e is never, ever the ay in lay.  It is only the "eh" sound in set.  So, ew is something like eh-oo (with the "h" in there marking the vowel sound, not a real "h").

Ooooh, okay. I was under the impression that the "e" was like the "lay" (ay). But thank you very much for clearing that up! The "eyo" confused me a bit.
Kuarŏ na nama tanayi cawŏŏt, kuo nim zaosmaŏt.
"Out of what crypt they crawl, I cannot tell."

 

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