I have no "krr."

[Swoka Swizaw]

I don't know how many this inflicts, but I am an ankyloglot (tongue-tied). Of all of the sounds that I can produce, the "trilled r" is my Achilles heel. (Thus the title. ) I can render all sounds in Na'vi, even the bloody ejectives, but cannot physically make the "trilled r." When I attempt this, at all, I end up trilling what I assume is the French r.

Am I the only one with this condition on this board? What might you all suggest I do to compensate? Thanks.

[Nìwotxkrr Tìyawn]

A French trill is better than no trill, but still I suggest you keep on practicing.

[SanguineEpitaph]

I have a problem with the alveolar "rr" too, but I've been practicing it lately. I find that relaxing my jaw and taking a large breath before trying to trill the r helps a LOT. It comes out a little dramatically, but I've become better at taking smaller breaths.

[Swoka Swizaw]

I have a problem with the alveolar "rr" too, but I've been practicing it lately. I find that relaxing my jaw and taking a large breath before trying to trill the r helps a LOT. It comes out a little dramatically, but I've become better at taking smaller breaths.

Sìltsan lam. Irayo.

[Carborundum]

One really appreciates being Scandinavian when one is learning Na'vi. We do both alveolar taps and trilled r:s natively 

[Swoka Swizaw]

One really appreciates being Scandinavian when one is learning Na'vi. We do both alveolar taps and trilled r:s natively 

I'm sure one would, but what about when one is born without the ability to make such sounds?

[Nìwotxkrr Tìyawn]

I was born in Wisconsin and can do it just fine. 

[Carborundum]

I'm sure one would, but what about when one is born without the ability to make such sounds?

Then one is out of luck.

Edit: well, that came off a bit harsh. No offence meant mate.

[Swoka Swizaw]

I'm sure one would, but what about when one is born without the ability to make such sounds?

Then one is out of luck.

Edit: well, that came off a bit harsh. No offence meant mate.

Oel ke'ut nìkawng fpolìl!

[suomichris]

Some of your clearly didn't bother to read the first post; the person in question said they have a condition which makes impossible for them to produce this sound.  No practice is going to help, and bragging that you can make the sound won't either. Yeesh....

Now that the admonishments are out of the way, I think a French-style uvular trill/fricative is probably fine.  R-type sounds are pretty slippery cross-linguistically, so even in the Na'vi thought you had an "accent," you would likely be understood by them (and certainly by any of the Na'vi-speaking humans who you are probably more likely to actually meet :p).

[Nìwotxkrr Tìyawn]

Some of your clearly didn't bother to read the first post; the person in question said they have a condition which makes impossible for them to produce this sound.  No practice is going to help, and bragging that you can make the sound won't either. Yeesh....

Now that the admonishments are out of the way, I think a French-style uvular trill/fricative is probably fine.  R-type sounds are pretty slippery cross-linguistically, so even in the Na'vi thought you had an "accent," you would likely be understood by them (and certainly by any of the Na'vi-speaking humans who you are probably more likely to actually meet :p).

1) I wasn't bragging

2) I've never met a tongue tied person so how am I supposed to know if he literally meant impossible or not. I'm not a doctor so you can't expect me to know everything about every condition ever.

[SanguineEpitaph]

I was just trying to help him.....and I didn't know that one could have a condition like that. Anyway, I thought I'd offer my knowledge, but I didn't know that was bragging... /.\

[Nìwotxkrr Tìyawn]

I think he assumed I was the one bragging, but what he doesn't know is that many southerners, yes I said southerners, make fun of how we in the north/midwest talk. Which would be the reason for my comment.

[SanguineEpitaph]

I think he assumed I was the one bragging, but what he doesn't know is that many southerners, yes I said southerners, make fun of how we in the north/midwest talk. Which would be the reason for my comment.

Well, the same can be said both ways.

[Erimeyz]

I don't know how many this inflicts, but I am an ankyloglot (tongue-tied). Of all of the sounds that I can produce, the "trilled r" is my Achilles heel.

Am I the only one with this condition on this board? What might you all suggest I do to compensate? Thanks.

Kaltxì, ma 'awpo aswok.  I don't know about on this board, but you're certainly not alone in the world.  This comment on a linguistics blog is from someone with ankyloglossia dicussing his problems with trilling Rs.  He eventually decided to have a frenulotomy, and in fact has had two.  Even so, he's having a hard time with trills, possibly because when younger he never developed some of the precursor tongue movements that the rest of us (even the non-trillers) take for granted.  He offers some concrete advice on learning to trill; I'm not sure how much of it will apply to you, but at least he's coming from a perspective closer to your own than most of us here have.  You may find it helpful.

For trilling in general, the best collection of suggestions seems to be this wikiHow page.  It does mention that ankyloglossia (and other conditions) "can prevent you from vocalizing the alveolar trill" but offers no advice on what to do in that case.  The blog comment above says "[people with ankyloglossia] either substitute a uvular trlll, or just suffer with a speech impediment."  Listening to the sound sample on the Wikipedia page, it sounds to me like a uvular trill would be close enough to an alveolar trill to easily get you by in the human Na'vi community.  Native speakers might think you sound a little funny, but I don't think that's going to be a problem for a while.

My two cents, as an outsider to your condition, but an avid Na'vi learner:  Part of the fun of speaking Na'vi is in making the sounds (it's a beautiful language... by design!).  And part of that is knowing, and recognizing, and reproducing, the difference between the different exotic sounds and their "normal" counterparts.  Unaspirating your Ps and ejecting your Pxs is all part of the fun; they're different from each other (semantically) and they're both different from English P (which doesn't affect the semantics, but helps make it feel like you're "speaking like an alien").  Same thing with the alveolar flap and the alveolar trill.  They're different from each other, and different from English.

Okay, so you may never be able to produce a trill.  Doesn't mean you have to miss out on the fun.  Substitute the uvular trill as suggested above!  It would make, in my opinion, an excellent "drop-in" replacement for the rr you can't pronounce.  It's distinct from the flap, it's distinct from the English R, it sounds "alien" to English ears, and it's probably as much fun to say as the alveolar trill anyway!  And since Na'vi doesn't have a uvular trill, you won't have any semantic conflicts to worry about!  Everyone will be able to tell what you're saying... even the natives.

You could think of it as your own personal accent.  If it were me, I would imagine myself as a character in the Avatar universe, perhaps a toktor assigned to pilot an avatar and interact with the Na'vi, but from some non-American country where they speak with a heavy accent, perhaps Romani or Sioux.  My Na'vi would be pretty good, but my native accent still carries through on occasion (no big deal, you should hear the awful American accents most of the other aytawtute have!).  It makes me kinda distinct among the other humans I work with, and both my coworkers and the Na'vi I deal with all recognize me because of it.  That's okay, though.  It's how I talk, it's how I was born talking, and damn if I'm going to be bothered to work out every last detail of talking like a native.  I've got important work to do, and besides... I like being a little different.

... or so I would imagine my character would think.  But that's me.  You'll have to come up with your own take on things.

Best of luck, and welcome to the forum!

  - Eri

[Swoka Swizaw]

Some of your clearly didn't bother to read the first post; the person in question said they have a condition which makes impossible for them to produce this sound.  No practice is going to help, and bragging that you can make the sound won't either. Yeesh....

Now that the admonishments are out of the way, I think a French-style uvular trill/fricative is probably fine.  R-type sounds are pretty slippery cross-linguistically, so even in the Na'vi thought you had an "accent," you would likely be understood by them (and certainly by any of the Na'vi-speaking humans who you are probably more likely to actually meet :p).

Irayo, for the defense. Though, I am positive that ayoe ayeylan only meant well.

I had figured a bit ago that I am bound to the velar region, in this regard, to compensate for my lack of alveolar strength. As for an accent, yeah. It sounds like a 'sensual grr'. Now I see why French is the language of love. Oi. 

[Tsamsiyu Atsteu]

I have the same problem. My mother could trill her r's like nobody's business, but sadly she's no longer living and cannot guide me in that. I feel your pain!

I don't know how many this inflicts, but I am an ankyloglot (tongue-tied). Of all of the sounds that I can produce, the "trilled r" is my Achilles heel. (Thus the title. ) I can render all sounds in Na'vi, even the bloody ejectives, but cannot physically make the "trilled r." When I attempt this, at all, I end up trilling what I assume is the French r.

Am I the only one with this condition on this board? What might you all suggest I do to compensate? Thanks.

[Swoka Swizaw]

I have the same problem. My mother could trill her r's like nobody's business, but sadly she's no longer living and cannot guide me in that. I feel your pain!

Thank you for your sentinent. It isn't that bad. I do stutter. If I forgot to mention that...to anyone. I stutter because of it. All, mostly, in the alveolar region.

BTW, if I may make a small correction to your name: you need the "adjective a" at the onset of tsteu. Tsamsiyu Atsteu.

[Tsamsiyu Atsteu]

Irayo, Swoka Swizaw. Na'vi grammar is confusing to me. Thank you for pointing this out. I just have a problem rolling my r's... I sound like I'm spitting or something. I practice but it's never going to be a true "trill". (I had that problem learning wookieespeak lol)

I have the same problem. My mother could trill her r's like nobody's business, but sadly she's no longer living and cannot guide me in that. I feel your pain!

Thank you for your sentinent. It isn't that bad. I do stutter. If I forgot to mention that...to anyone. I stutter because of it. All, mostly, in the alveolar region.

BTW, if I may make a small correction to your name: you need the "adjective a" at the onset of tsteu[i/]. Tsamsiyu Atsteu. You should be able to change it, I think.

[Novo]

A French trill is better than no trill.

muahahaha xDD