"Melting pot" concept

['Oma Tirea]

Spoiler

I might warn you that this is a real

Spoiler

In the Director's Cut of the Collector's Edition, Paul Frommer talks about working with a dialect coach for potentially differing pronounciations in Na'vi, primarily based off of Zoë Saldana's accent of Na'vi.  I was beginning to think that this would be a big explanation for why the mispronounciations and variations are as such.

To me this is an interesting observation because Paul had only created the one Na'vi language, and had not (yet) established different Na'vi accents (hopefully we will see those more clearly in AVATAR 2 and 3).  I have established a few quirks of my own, but have not yet seen any official KP-approved accent variations to make my attempt at.

[Ataeghane]

Well, it's quite interesting. Pandora is the another world, it'd be really strange if there were only one dialect. (It may be thare are even many diffrent languages.)

[omängum fra'uti]

I think you're reading more into it than there is.  I think the idea of it was just to get everyone sounding like they had all been speaking together the whole time.  Consider how odd it would be if there was a movie about a group of Americans who all supposedly lived together most/all their lives...  Yet one spoke with a southern drawl, one with a Brooklyn accent, and one spoke like a valley girl.

[Kì'eyawn]

I think you're reading more into it than there is.  I think the idea of it was just to get everyone sounding like they had all been speaking together the whole time.  Consider how odd it would be if there was a movie about a group of Americans who all supposedly lived together most/all their lives...  Yet one spoke with a southern drawl, one with a Brooklyn accent, and one spoke like a valley girl.

You mean kinda like Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles?

[Plumps]

Well, it's quite interesting. Pandora is the another world, it'd be really strange if there were only one dialect. (It may be thare are even many diffrent languages.)

True ... one of the major 'errors' in Sci-Fi or Fantasy related languages of other worlds. Don't know how the approach with Klingon is right now, but I always thought it was rather odd to speak of the Klingon language considering that on Earth there are literary thousands of languages and dialects that are so different from each other.

The one argument that speaks against different languages on Eywa'eveng, for me personally, is tsaheylu and the connectedness of the People with the world and their ancestory, really. They have a literal collective memory through the Trees of Voices ... I'm not sure what the socio-linguistic approaches are to that or whether there are comparable studies/tendencies on Earth but to me, that suggests that there would be at least very little variations in languages on Pandora ... this excludes dialects and especially sociolects because they are chosen, as far as I know, to decidedly distinguish from other groups but that doesn't mean, speaker of that social group wouldn't understand or were not able to speak "high Na'vi".

[Lance R. Casey]

Well, it's quite interesting. Pandora is the another world, it'd be really strange if there were only one dialect. (It may be thare are even many diffrent languages.)

True ... one of the major 'errors' in Sci-Fi or Fantasy related languages of other worlds. Don't know how the approach with Klingon is right now, but I always thought it was rather odd to speak of the Klingon language considering that on Earth there are literary thousands of languages and dialects that are so different from each other.

For a full answer to that, refer to the book Klingon for the Galactic Traveler and its first chapter "The Fiction of Klingon Conformity". Some operative quotes:

All Klingons are not alike. To an outsider, Klingon society is often regarded as rather homogeneous, as if all Klingons behave and think in the same way. In fact, although there are a good many shared basic beliefs and understandings that hold Klingon society together and define what it means to be a Klingon, there is a great deal of variation. [...]
   By the same token, all Klingons do not speak alike. [...]
[...]
   The current linguistic situation in the Klingon Empire is a rather complex one that can be somewhat better understood in the light of a bit of history. Klingon mythology holds that over 1,500 years ago, Kahless the Unforgettable actually created the Klingon Empire by overthrowing the tyrant Molor. [...] Before Kahless united them, however, the peoples of Kronos, the Klingon Homeworld, consisted of disparate groups [...], with different customs and sometimes different languages. As the Empire expanded, as other planets were [...] conquered or incorporated, an even greater number of distinct cultures and languages became part of the overall mix.
   [...] In terms of language, there are regions within the Empire where the ancestral languages are still spoken, though in a somewhat changed form. [...] In short, within the Empire there are several languages, and the major languages (that is, those with the most speakers) are spoken in a number of versions or dialects.
   The official language of the Klingon Empire, the language used for all official purposes, descended from that spoken by Kahless (and, for that matter, also by Molor). [...]
   [...] In some of the larger cities on Kronos, particularly the capital First City (veng wa'DIch), there are pockets of immigrants from these other planets who maintain their languages and customs but do so pretty much out of the hearing of the majority population. Speaking a language other than Klingon, unless everybody present understands it, is considered inappropriate because the speakers may be implying that they do not trust the nonspeakers.
   Few native speakers of Klingon bother to learn these other languages (except for the names of some foods), but an occasional word or phrase does sometimes work its way into Klingon proper. For example, qajunpaQ ("courage, audacity") comes from kajunpakt, a word used in this sense but literally meaning something like "glowing lava" or "fiery lava" in a language originally spoken on Krios. [...]
   Heard far more frequently than non-Klingon languages are various archaic forms of Klingon, dating from different time periods and originating in different regions, collectively known as no' Hol ("ancestors' language"). The ancient forms are heard primarily, though not exclusively, in ceremonies, songs, and classical stories.

[...]

   Even modern Klingon is characterized by variation. There is a "standard" Klingon, used in public ceremonies and official documents, taught in schools and studied by foreigners, but it changes from time to time and it is not the only way to speak. It gains its status for political, not linguistic, reasons. [...]
   Throughout Klingon history, and still today, if the leader of the Empire carries the title ta' ("Emperor"), the way he speaks Klingon—that is, the dialect used by his family and people from his region—is always considered the best way. The vocabulary and grammatical details typical of the leader's area become the current model for the Empire.

This "Emperor's language" is called just that: ta' Hol. The chapter goes on to detail the geopolitical situation on Qo'noS as well as a number of regional dialects. For a "real-life" example, the sentry of the Klingon outpost the Enterprise bridge crew has to bluff their way past by leafing through books in STVI speaks in one of these dialects.

So, in summary, the matter has in fact been addressed to some degree.

[Kì'eyawn]

Well, it's quite interesting. Pandora is the another world, it'd be really strange if there were only one dialect. (It may be thare are even many diffrent languages.)

True ... one of the major 'errors' in Sci-Fi or Fantasy related languages of other worlds. Don't know how the approach with Klingon is right now, but I always thought it was rather odd to speak of the Klingon language considering that on Earth there are literary thousands of languages and dialects that are so different from each other.

The one argument that speaks against different languages on Eywa'eveng, for me personally, is tsaheylu and the connectedness of the People with the world and their ancestory, really. They have a literal collective memory through the Trees of Voices ... I'm not sure what the socio-linguistic approaches are to that or whether there are comparable studies/tendencies on Earth but to me, that suggests that there would be at least very little variations in languages on Pandora ... this excludes dialects and especially sociolects because they are chosen, as far as I know, to decidedly distinguish from other groups but that doesn't mean, speaker of that social group wouldn't understand or were not able to speak "high Na'vi".

Ma Plumps, an Earth example might involve looking at how modern media—video and radio in particular—have altered language development.  I've heard there are concerns that the ubiquitous television might be responsible for the homogenizing of language across subcultures (i.e., minor dialects are getting lost as their speakers are inundated with "standard" language).  So, the Trees of Voices might have a similar dampening effect on language variation.

Although, i see that having film for over a century now hasn't kept English from changing, at least; i still feel that there are noticeable differences between American English now and from, say, the 1950's.  And film and television certainly haven't eliminated regionalisms completely.

[Plumps]

For a full answer to that, refer to the book Klingon for the Galactic Traveler and its first chapter "The Fiction of Klingon Conformity". Some operative quotes:

All Klingons are not alike. To an outsider, Klingon society is often regarded as rather homogeneous, as if all Klingons behave and think in the same way. In fact, although there are a good many shared basic beliefs and understandings that hold Klingon society together and define what it means to be a Klingon, there is a great deal of variation. [...]
   By the same token, all Klingons do not speak alike. [...]
[...]
   [...]
[...]

   Even modern Klingon is characterized by variation. There is a "standard" Klingon, used in public ceremonies and official documents, taught in schools and studied by foreigners, but it changes from time to time and it is not the only way to speak. It gains its status for political, not linguistic, reasons. [...]
   Throughout Klingon history, and still today, if the leader of the Empire carries the title ta' ("Emperor"), the way he speaks Klingon—that is, the dialect used by his family and people from his region—is always considered the best way. The vocabulary and grammatical details typical of the leader's area become the current model for the Empire.

This "Emperor's language" is called just that: ta' Hol. The chapter goes on to detail the geopolitical situation on Qo'noS as well as a number of regional dialects. For a "real-life" example, the sentry of the Klingon outpost the Enterprise bridge crew has to bluff their way past by leafing through books in STVI speaks in one of these dialects.

So, in summary, the matter has in fact been addressed to some degree.

Ma Lance, I love you a little
Now that I read that, I remember that I wanted to include that in my original post ... I have the German translation of Galactic Traveler in my book shelf and must have read this bit because the part about the emperor sounds familiar ... I remember, when I read this, I thought, 'How cool is that (but in a way also depressing) to conform to the dialect the current ruler is speaking' I can hear the dialogue right now:
   "Have you heard? Kempek is dead..."
   "But he was named ruler only last week!"
   "We can't help it—we have to learn the new preferred dialect of Duras..."
   "Argh..."

Ma Plumps, an Earth example might involve looking at how modern media—video and radio in particular—have altered language development.  I've heard there are concerns that the ubiquitous television might be responsible for the homogenizing of language across subcultures (i.e., minor dialects are getting lost as their speakers are inundated with "standard" language).  So, the Trees of Voices might have a similar dampening effect on language variation.

Although, i see that having film for over a century now hasn't kept English from changing, at least; i still feel that there are noticeable differences between American English now and from, say, the 1950's.  And film and television certainly haven't eliminated regionalisms completely.

Ma, Lawren, that is actually a good point ... I thought about that a bit more and I think what also plays into this consideration is the way tsaheylu works (or is supposed to...)
When Jake connects with the Aymokriyä Ayutral, the best cinematic convention presented us the People's ancestral thoughts as voices ... words ... songs ... laughter. Because how else would you present thoughts...?
When Jake takes riding lessons, Neytiri tells him, to 'think the word in his head' ... the problem I see there is that we seldomly think in words, let alone whole sentences. That makes the discussion of what language actually is and how it came to be, so fascinating—why do the Na'vi need to speak? In a way, tsaheylu is kind of telepathy—it's described as an intimate process, I know that. But otherwise, they could connect and communicate through that ... but that probably doesn't belong here.

The point I want to make is that the way how we aquire information, knowledge (via TV and radio and all the other new media that develops) is very different from what the Na'vi experience via tsaheylu at the Tree of Voices, I presume – do you get what I mean?

Of course, you I right and I've also read about the research done on TV representation and how it affects dialects – even with all the conectedness you'd think language change would come to a halt ... but it doesn't, we all know that

[`Eylan Ayfalulukanä]

If anything, the explosion of easy television production and the Internet may actually serve to intensify dialects, by exposing them to the rest of the world. It also exposes entire languages, and perhaps may interest people in learning to speak/read new languages. Language will never stand still until we do.

As far as Na`vi culture and the existence of other dialects/languages, one can only speculate, as only JC knows for sure. My feeling is that there is probably more than one language on Pandora, but not many languages. What we call Na`vi may be spoken (in various dialects) throughout the 'tropical' regions of the planet. Language is affected very much my culture, living conditions, and what it takes to survive. So in the colder climates, the people living there (and I bet there are people there, and that is where you very well might find me on Pandora) probably speak a very modified dialect of Na`vi, if not an entirely different language. On a different continent (if they exist), there is likely a different language, as (as far as we know) the Na`vi have no way to easily get between continents. (I still maintain there is a race of technologically advanced Na`vi living on the other side of the planet that the RDA has yet to discover  )

If we think of Eywa as at minimum, a very powerful distributed computing platform, I think that she could handle language translation just fine. If Eywa is in fact able to store the 'souls' of Na`vi people, it is 'coding their essence' at a far lower level than language, and language is just a high level detail coded into the low level data (like the OSI 'layer' data processing model).

Finally, Tsaheylu essentially makes one 'one' with the animal they have bonded to. As a higher level intelligence, the person is in control. Yet, they rather directly perceive the animal's body the same way we perceive our own. They may be able to see through the animal's eyes, hear through the animal's ears, etc. as well as use their own senses. They have the ability to control the extra set of legs, wings, etc., because this ability is designed into their nervous system. This also gives the person feedback so they know when they are approaching the animal's mechanical or endurance limits. Additionally, yhey may be able to sense the animal's more primitive emotions and react to them. An ikran, for instance, might really enjoy soaring. So, if the person takes their ikran and goes soaring, that is a good experience for both ikran and rider.

Getting back to language, there may eventually need to be a range of terms created to describe the things experienced between animal and person during a tsaheylu bond.

I'll leave person-person tsaheylu to be speculated on by others.