movie pronunciation

[Alyara Arati]

This isn't a question, just a group thank you for people on various topics that I've come across who pointed out that THE FILM IS NOT ALWAYS RIGHT!  That had really been bothering me, especially the ä so often as "a" and the inconsistency of the explosive consonants.  Now I'm more confident that I'm practicing my sounds correctly, in my best attempt at the Fromerian manner.

Irayo, ma smukan ì smuke!
Alyara Arati

[Tirea Aean]

This isn't a question, just a group thank you for people on various topics that I've come across who pointed out that THE FILM IS NOT ALWAYS RIGHT!  That had really been bothering me, especially the ä so often as "a" and the inconsistency of the explosive consonants.  Now I'm more confident that I'm practicing my sounds correctly, in my best attempt at the Fromerian manner.

Irayo, ma smukan ì smuke!
Alyara Arati

Lesson 1: DO NOT trust Tsu'tey on how to pronounce ä.

but yeah. it would be a shorter list to come up with the times where the actors got the pronunciation CORRECT HRH yeah it is a tad unsettling to some people, but they are actors. they didnt learn the language or even have to. If I understang correctly, they tried to memorise lines which just look like gibberish to them, working with stuff like this:

Mah tsoo-TAY KEM-peh see-NGA?!

instead of

ma Tsu'tey kempe si nga?

[Kemaweyan]

Lesson 1: DO NOT trust Tsu'tey on how to pronounce ä.

Hrh Exactly!

[Kì'eyawn]

Lesson 1: DO NOT trust Tsu'tey on how to pronounce ä.

but yeah. it would be a shorter list to come up with the times where the actors got the pronunciation CORRECT HRH

True, although CCH Pounder was pretty rockin' as Mo'at, tì'efumì oeyä.

[Tirea Aean]

Lesson 1: DO NOT trust Tsu'tey on how to pronounce ä.

but yeah. it would be a shorter list to come up with the times where the actors got the pronunciation CORRECT HRH

True, although CCH Pounder was pretty rockin' as Mo'at, tì'efumì oeyä.

*Waits for Sxkxawng alu 'Oma Tirea to come and disagree*

[Txur’Itan]

Lesson 1: DO NOT trust Tsu'tey on how to pronounce ä.

but yeah. it would be a shorter list to come up with the times where the actors got the pronunciation CORRECT HRH

True, although CCH Pounder was pretty rockin' as Mo'at, tì'efumì oeyä.

*Waits for Sxkxawng alu 'Oma Tirea to come and disagree*

Canonically, actors not learning the language properly, still influenced the way "native" speakers were portrayed as speaking the language, and also much of the understanding of the usage of the language.  So fundamentally, do we say Tsu'Tey was a bit off mentally, and that is why he frequently misspoke, or do we declare him as a foreign tribal with a distinctly separate accent/dialect to maintain continuity with what was portrayed in the Movie?  After all he was a "Native" Na'vi (Unless Ret-Con identifies him as actually being a Rogue Human Mole in an AVTR body in Avatar 2).

Apparently, some people are stanch on the turf of everyone is wrong except Paul Frommer who created Vocabulary and structure, even going so far as to say James Cameron is wrong even though he invented the nucleus and genesis of the language.

So what do we do?  Discount the Cannon or consider it erroneous but acceptably correct?

Or declare the movie as a recounting of events portrayed by non native speakers of Na'vi? =P

['Oma Tirea]

Lesson 1: DO NOT trust Tsu'tey on how to pronounce ä.

but yeah. it would be a shorter list to come up with the times where the actors got the pronunciation CORRECT HRH

True, although CCH Pounder was pretty rockin' as Mo'at, tì'efumì oeyä.

*Waits for Sxkxawng alu 'Oma Tirea to come and disagree*

Ììììììììììììììììì Sran... teri tsaw....

Only her rhotics were a little off in the dreamhunt scene (and it did get to be not so good during Grace's ceremony ) that's about it for Mo'at, though.

...and srane, you can't truse Tsu'tey or even Neytiri, hot as she is , to guide you in speaking Na'vi.

Examples of the movie enunciations (a.k.a Na'vi butcherings):

maweː naʔvija | mawe (Mawey, Na'viya! Mawey!)
ma (t)͡suʔ.teː ke̞m.pe̞ si nga (Ma Tsu'tey, kempe si nga?)
ka (kä)
faj.vr.i.tep (Fayvrrtep)
tɪŋ mæ.kjun (tìng mikyun)
ʌ.lʌ.ksi o.ma.ti.ka.ja.ɾu kɪ.tɛ̝.ʔɛ̝ si.vi (alaksi Omatikayaru kìte'e sivi)
ma t'an.ʦlu.sam.a ŋɑw (ma txantslusama ngawng)
po.ri aɪ.wəŋ.ga.ru lu tɪ.kin (Pori ayoengaru lu tìkin)

The correct enunciations of the above:

mawɛj naʔvija | mawɛj (Mawey, Na'viya! Mawey!)
ma ʦuʔ.tɛj kɛm.pɛ si nga (Ma Tsu'tey, kempe si nga?)
kæ (kä)
tɪŋ mik.jun (tìng mikyun)
a.lak.si o.ma.ti.ka.ja.ɾu kɪ.tɛ.ʔɛ si.vi (alaksi Omatikayaru kìte'e sivi)
ma t'an.ʦlu.sam.a ŋawŋ (ma txantslusama ngawng)
po.ɾi aj.o̯ɛ.ŋa.ɾu lu tɪ.kin (Pori ayoengaru lu tìkin)

...and Zoe Saldana (Neytiri) butchered a line so bad we once thought there was a line in the movie that had both <ìm> and <ìy> in the same word.  She also can't seen to get the 'RR correct

['Oma Tirea]

Apparently, some people are stanch on the turf of everyone is wrong except Paul Frommer who created Vocabulary and structure, even going so far as to say James Cameron is wrong even though he invented the nucleus and genesis of the language.

So what do we do?  Discount the Cannon or consider it erroneous but acceptably correct?

Or declare the movie as a recounting of events portrayed by non native speakers of Na'vi? =P

Definitely erronous, and IMHO even incorrect if Frommer doesn't explain some Na'vi variations that could happen, or even rewrite the phonology a little.

[Tirea Aean]

Lesson 1: DO NOT trust Tsu'tey on how to pronounce ä.

but yeah. it would be a shorter list to come up with the times where the actors got the pronunciation CORRECT HRH

True, although CCH Pounder was pretty rockin' as Mo'at, tì'efumì oeyä.

*Waits for Sxkxawng alu 'Oma Tirea to come and disagree*

HA! it happened!

Spoiler

Ììììììììììììììììì Sran... teri tsaw....

Only her rhotics were a little off in the dreamhunt scene (and it did get to be not so good during Grace's ceremony ) that's about it for Mo'at, though.

...and srane, you can't truse Tsu'tey or even Neytiri, hot as she is , to guide you in speaking Na'vi.

Examples of the movie enunciations (a.k.a Na'vi butcherings):

maweː naʔvija | mawe (Mawey, Na'viya! Mawey!)
ma (t)͡suʔ.teː ke̞m.pe̞ si nga (Ma Tsu'tey, kempe si nga?)
ka (kä)
faj.vr.i.tep (Fayvrrtep)
tɪŋ mæ.kjun (tìng mikyun)
ʌ.lʌ.ksi o.ma.ti.ka.ja.ɾu kɪ.tɛ̝.ʔɛ̝ si.vi (alaksi Omatikayaru kìte'e sivi)
ma t'an.ʦlu.sam.a ŋɑw (ma txantslusama ngawng)
po.ri aɪ.wəŋ.ga.ru lu tɪ.kin (Pori ayoengaru lu tìkin)

The correct enunciations of the above:

mawɛj naʔvija | mawɛj (Mawey, Na'viya! Mawey!)
ma ʦuʔ.tɛj kɛm.pɛ si nga (Ma Tsu'tey, kempe si nga?)
kæ (kä)
tɪŋ mik.jun (tìng mikyun)
a.lak.si o.ma.ti.ka.ja.ɾu kɪ.tɛ.ʔɛ si.vi (alaksi Omatikayaru kìte'e sivi)
ma t'an.ʦlu.sam.a ŋawŋ (ma txantslusama ngawng)
po.ɾi aj.o̯ɛ.ŋa.ɾu lu tɪ.kin (Pori ayoengaru lu tìkin)

...and Zoe Saldana (Neytiri) butchered a line so bad we once thought there was a line in the movie that had both <ìm> and <ìy> in the same word.  She also can't seen to get the 'RR correct

OH actually, concerning ìm ìy....

Frommer admitted that the line in the script there indeed was

oel pot tspìmìyang...

and he regrets it and has discredited it. it was at this time, the suggestion that kan as a modal to replace such a structure was born and accepted.

/October workshop awesomeness

[Alyara Arati]

Apparently, some people are stanch on the turf of everyone is wrong except Paul Frommer who created Vocabulary and structure, even going so far as to say James Cameron is wrong even though he invented the nucleus and genesis of the language.

So what do we do?  Discount the Cannon or consider it erroneous but acceptably correct?

Or declare the movie as a recounting of events portrayed by non native speakers of Na'vi? =P

Definitely erronous, and IMHO even incorrect if Frommer doesn't explain some Na'vi variations that could happen, or even rewrite the phonology a little.

I personally would like to view it in the same light as when Sam Worthington went Aussie at moments; it was mildly perceptible, but did not ruin the whole movie experience for me.  Dialects occur, even though they are generally not different within the same tribe except for the variations between generations. 

As for who's Na'vi is more Na'vi, probably the Paul Fromer version, but I still like some of the Cameronian words and would like to believe he knew what he was doing when editing the film.  It is possible to believe two opposing things at the same time, it just takes a little practice and an overly flexible mind.

[Eyawng te Klltepayu]

Kìreysì poltxe san tìng mäkyun sic.

[`Eylan Ayfalulukanä]

If we let the movie overly influence correct phonology, we will never get this language down to a point where it is really practical to learn. I suspect the vast majority of people out there enjoy the film without knowing the Na`vi they are hearing has lots of little errors. I bet also, that there isn't one person, not even Sxkxawng  , that gets everything right all the time!

['Oma Tirea]

If we let the movie overly influence correct phonology, we will never get this language down to a point where it is really practical to learn. I suspect the vast majority of people out there enjoy the film without knowing the Na`vi they are hearing has lots of little errors. I bet also, that there isn't one person, not even Sxkxawng  , that gets everything right all the time!

Sran there are lots of little errors, and some of the nitpicky phonetic details aren't confirmed.  Below is a pic of what I always do for the 7 Na'vi vowels.  I also never have any epenthesis/elision issues, such as an extra [i] in fayvrrtep, unlike what Zoë Saldaña did.

Oe fmi fu kem si sìltsan nìul to tsaw....

EDIT: Notice that no two regions interfere with one another, so kä will never sound like ka or ke

['Oma Tirea]

BTW, nga realize why oeyä tstxo is spelled Sxkxawng, kefyak?

[Txur’Itan]

BTW, nga realize why oeyä tstxo is spelled Sxkxawng, kefyak?

S ejective!

[Tirea Aean]

BTW, nga realize why oeyä tstxo is spelled Sxkxawng, kefyak?

S ejective!

because in some obscure language that isn't Na'vi, that sound exists.

[Kemaweyan]

There is no sound "sx" in Na'vi phonetic

[Sireayä mokri]

because in some obscure language that isn't Na'vi, that sound exists.

I wonder what that language is

[Carborundum]

I've actually caught myself pronouncing it as sxkxawng on more than one occasion. I find that when s or ts appear right before kx, px, or tx, I often mispronounce them as sx and tsx instead. It's a very subtle difference though, so I doubt anyone would notice unless they were actively listening for it.

[Kì'eyawn]

I've actually caught myself pronouncing it as sxkxawng on more than one occasion. I find that when s or ts appear right before kx, px, or tx, I often mispronounce them as sx and tsx instead. It's a very subtle difference though, so I doubt anyone would notice unless they were actively listening for it.

I do it, too, sometimes.  I wouldn't be surprised if sx and tsx are acceptable allophones in Na'vi.  After all, it's not like the phonemes are super-precise:  In infixes, we already have <iyev> / <ìyev> and <äng> / <eng>.