Poor audio pronunciations

Started by Muzer, June 06, 2010, 04:49:22 PM

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Muzer

Many of the audio examples I've heard are very good, but some of them are quite obviously wrong. I think this is a problem as when I was first starting to learn I used these and some of them made me do pretty odd things (for example, the first one that came to my head, the one for atxkxe, which made me think that 'e' at the end of the word turned into "ey" - they pronounce it as "atxkxey") - though thankfully I don't think I got into any habits.

Also, there still doesn't seem to quite be a decision among these audio clips on how you should do ejectives - I personally can do them two ways, with a short pause before and after the ejective, or with a long pause before and no pause after (going straight into the vowel) which seems to me to be most common - but the latter is much harder to do and is brutally difficult with certain dipthongs (unfortunately I can't remember the example but there was one I was having real trouble with). I don't know for sure which one is the generally accepted one, and I hear examples of both in the film, even from the same character.
[21:42:56] <@Muzer> Apple products used to be good, if expensive
[21:42:59] <@Muzer> now they are just expensive

omängum fra'uti

The ideal ejective flows right into the following vowel just like any other consonant.  The pause is not part of the pronunciation, it is jut part of not being used to pronouncing it.

And the lack of a good baseline pronunciation guide is why I started the collection of pronunciations with reviews to try and get a collection of good spoken words.  Sadly it hasn't been used much lately.
Ftxey lu nga tokx ftxey lu nga tirea? Lu oe tìkeftxo.
Listen to my Na'vi Lessons podcast!

bommel


Muzer

Quote from: omängum fra'uti on June 06, 2010, 05:05:35 PM
The ideal ejective flows right into the following vowel just like any other consonant.  The pause is not part of the pronunciation, it is jut part of not being used to pronouncing it.

So it should be more like Grace's "kaltxì"? Or are you saying there shouldn't be a pause on either side of it? I don't see how it's possible to do it without a pause at all if that's what you mean... you would have to have at least a sort pause between the 'l' and the "tx" in that.
[21:42:56] <@Muzer> Apple products used to be good, if expensive
[21:42:59] <@Muzer> now they are just expensive

omängum fra'uti

The pause should be minimal.  It actually is possible to say without any pause with a LOT of practice.  A fluent speaker would have no problem at all.  (Listen to someone speaking one of the African languages with the "pops" and "clicks" or even implosives.  Implosives are HARDER to do than ejectives because not only do you stop the air from your lungs, you actually reverse the flow and pull air INTO your mouth to make the sound.)  I can do that for a few words (And have had people think there was no ejective there because they were listening for the pause) but it takes a lot of practice.

And I would NEVER say something should be like Grace's ANYTHING in Na'vi.  ;D
Ftxey lu nga tokx ftxey lu nga tirea? Lu oe tìkeftxo.
Listen to my Na'vi Lessons podcast!

kewnya txamew'itan

Quote from: omängum fra'uti on June 06, 2010, 05:05:35 PM
The ideal ejective flows right into the following vowel just like any other consonant.  The pause is not part of the pronunciation, it is jut part of not being used to pronouncing it.

Some languages do have ejectives with a bit more pause after them, but based on Frommer's video teaching someone ejectives, na'vi isn't one of those, there should be as little pause as possible, and the ejective should be as poppy and hard as you can.
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omängum fra'uti

Based on his audio, and based on his answer when I asked him about the pause after ejectives.  I wanted to make sure I was teaching the right thing in my pronunciation lessons so I had that clarified.  Yes, some languages do have a pause, but his intent is with Na'vi that it should be as fluid as manageable.
Ftxey lu nga tokx ftxey lu nga tirea? Lu oe tìkeftxo.
Listen to my Na'vi Lessons podcast!

Muzer

I just tried pronouncing "kaltxì" without a pause before or after, and after a few attempts I think I got it - but it sounds incredibly odd, as if someone had recorded one recording of me saying "kal" and another of me saying "txì" and spliced them together far too close so it sounds unnatural. That's how it sounds when I say it, to my ears :P. Is this how it's supposed to sound?
[21:42:56] <@Muzer> Apple products used to be good, if expensive
[21:42:59] <@Muzer> now they are just expensive