Author Topic: Pronouncing that tricky R - The Alveolar flap  (Read 36359 times)

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Danecki

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Re: Pronouncing that tricky R - The Alveolar flap
« Reply #20 on: December 31, 2009, 05:51:53 am »
Some of you could find help in this commercial :-)


Offline Kìte'eyä Aungia

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Re: Pronouncing that tricky R - The Alveolar flap
« Reply #21 on: December 31, 2009, 12:44:51 pm »
My advice for those working on the trilled/rolled r is to just buckle down and put in some serious time working at it. I had to learn this in a very short time for one of my classes, so I set aside an hour or two each day to just sit and try out different things, eventually getting it right after three or four days (you could also work at it while walking or driving if you don't have that kind of free time and don't mind people on the street looking at you funny). It can be incredibly frustrating, but remember that anyone can do it, it doesn't require special muscles that you don't have. 

Offline Tskxäozì Ewaoe

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Re: Pronouncing that tricky R - The Alveolar flap
« Reply #22 on: January 02, 2010, 12:05:52 am »
I've posted this in the other thread, but it should go here:


To pronounce the 'r' properly, the 'r' sound is rhow. It helps if you can speak japanese. Basically that 'r'sound is the sound between the r and l. 'ro' and 'lo', try mix them together into one and you'll get the 'r sound pretty well.

What it feels like in your mouth is the tip of your tongue is at the ceiling of your mouth and when you say the 'r', your tongue will move back down (try imagine lapping to other way, from top to bottom)

Nari sounds a bit like 'Narhli' (where the rhl is combined)

To do the 'rr', point the tip of your tongue to the ceiling of your mouth and then blow through with your throat and if done correctly your tongue should vibrate and create the trilled sound. But mostly this does require practise.

I can do the 'r' sound because of Japanese and for the 'rr' sound, well i've been doing that since I was like 4?
« Last Edit: January 02, 2010, 12:07:46 am by Tskxäozì Ewaoe »

Offline Tanhì'ite

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Re: Pronouncing that tricky R - The Alveolar flap
« Reply #23 on: January 02, 2010, 01:12:30 am »
I've posted this in the other thread, but it should go here:


To pronounce the 'r' properly, the 'r' sound is rhow. It helps if you can speak japanese. Basically that 'r'sound is the sound between the r and l. 'ro' and 'lo', try mix them together into one and you'll get the 'r sound pretty well.

What it feels like in your mouth is the tip of your tongue is at the ceiling of your mouth and when you say the 'r', your tongue will move back down (try imagine lapping to other way, from top to bottom)

Nari sounds a bit like 'Narhli' (where the rhl is combined)

To do the 'rr', point the tip of your tongue to the ceiling of your mouth and then blow through with your throat and if done correctly your tongue should vibrate and create the trilled sound. But mostly this does require practise.

I can do the 'r' sound because of Japanese and for the 'rr' sound, well i've been doing that since I was like 4?

Agreed. Having studied Japanese, the /r/ was easy to understand. The /rr/? Not so much. But, really, the only thing that really helps to get it is to practice. A lot.

ma tsmukan : Tanhì'itan

Offline Sylwanin ean Tanhì

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Re: Pronouncing that tricky R - The Alveolar flap
« Reply #24 on: January 02, 2010, 11:07:36 am »
Well.... I saw the vid and think its very helpful.. I was kind of confused at first but now the other example I can think of is this and is pretty simple:

When you watch a kid playing with a "hot wheel" car or an airplane/helicopter etc. you see that often they make the "brrrrrm" sound when they move it or "shoot" [prrrr] well if you do it once its the /r/ [prum!] and if you continue it [as shown before], it'll be the /rr/.

I could explain it this other way and find it easy to understand too:  You can use the tip of your tongue and try to touch the lines behind your teeth on the "sky" of your mouth [thats how we call it in PR]. Once you have the tip there just try to keep it as hard as you can and breathe out hard [like an exaggerated sigh] and there you have it! short for /r/ and longer for /rr/

Hope txo srung!
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Offline Tskxäozì Ewaoe

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Re: Pronouncing that tricky R - The Alveolar flap
« Reply #25 on: January 03, 2010, 12:05:20 am »
Yeah, the tongue should vibrate.

Offline Tirea Nìwotxkrr

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Re: Pronouncing that tricky R - The Alveolar flap
« Reply #26 on: January 05, 2010, 02:54:21 pm »
Some of you could find help in this commercial :-)
<--- WIN!!

Offline Roiki

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Re: Pronouncing that tricky R - The Alveolar flap
« Reply #27 on: January 05, 2010, 03:09:55 pm »
As i posted in on the other thread i might post it here as well.



The word you should listen is the finnish word "perkele", when said in a proper way, the speaker puts pressure on the middle "r" making a similiar sound as the na'vi "rr".
Slow is smooth, smooth is fast.

Offline kewnya txamew'itan

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Re: Pronouncing that tricky R - The Alveolar flap
« Reply #28 on: January 07, 2010, 04:35:27 am »
Well.... I saw the vid and think its very helpful.. I was kind of confused at first but now the other example I can think of is this and is pretty simple:

When you watch a kid playing with a "hot wheel" car or an airplane/helicopter etc. you see that often they make the "brrrrrm" sound when they move it or "shoot" [prrrr] well if you do it once its the /r/ [prum!] and if you continue it [as shown before], it'll be the /rr/.


When I do a car Brrr it's a bilabial trill. I think it's best to tell people to do the second method.
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Offline Sylwanin ean Tanhì

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Re: Pronouncing that tricky R - The Alveolar flap
« Reply #29 on: January 07, 2010, 02:28:53 pm »
OH WOW... NOW I SEE IT WAS A BAD EXAMPLE [THE BRRM] MOST PPL WILL THINK ITS WITH THE LIPS.... LOL ITS JUST THAT MY SON DOES IT WITH THE TONGUE... WELL, SCRATCH THAT PART!  :-\
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Offline Tsufätu Ayioangä

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Re: Pronouncing that tricky R - The Alveolar flap
« Reply #30 on: January 11, 2010, 11:06:14 am »
I hate rs!  They are different in nearly every single language.  Knowing this, I kinda looked at any words woth an r with pure fear but this was really helpful.  Thanks guys! :D

Offline Sera

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Re: Pronouncing that tricky R - The Alveolar flap
« Reply #31 on: January 15, 2010, 01:31:32 pm »
This was so helpful!  I have studied Japanese a bit so I should be okay with the /r/ sound.  The rolled rr shouldn't be too bad either as I've spoken a lot of French and should be okay with that.  I was having trouble with the /r/ sound because I think I had assumed it was a plain English R and hadn't even considered the Japanese sound.  Thanks so much!

Offline kewnya txamew'itan

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Re: Pronouncing that tricky R - The Alveolar flap
« Reply #32 on: January 15, 2010, 01:43:05 pm »
A French r trill is very different from a Na'vi rr, it should be the same as the Spanish which is an alveolar trill (same place as the /r/ but trilling not flapping) whereas the French one IIRC is a trill at the back (a uvular trill) of the throat not the front of the mouth (alveolar trill). Look here and compare the first and third sounds, the 1st is correct, the 3rd is French.
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Offline Sera

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Re: Pronouncing that tricky R - The Alveolar flap
« Reply #33 on: January 15, 2010, 01:59:35 pm »
Ugh, thanks for correcting me before I made a fool of myself.  I'm still in the early stages of pronunciation (mostly trying to figure out the ejectives right now).  That said, I think I've been pronouncing the French trill wrong, because it sounds more like the first (Spanish) example on that link you sent me, lol!  Yay for mistakes?  Thanks for your help!

Offline kewnya txamew'itan

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Re: Pronouncing that tricky R - The Alveolar flap
« Reply #34 on: January 15, 2010, 04:15:50 pm »
This audio clip by wm.annis should help explain ejectives. And it's good to catch these things before your used to pronouncing them incorrectly.
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Offline Sera

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Re: Pronouncing that tricky R - The Alveolar flap
« Reply #35 on: January 15, 2010, 05:47:32 pm »
I listened to that earlier today.  It will require a couple more hearings though!  Thanks. :)

Offline Tsawkeyä Unilyu

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Re: Pronouncing that tricky R - The Alveolar flap
« Reply #36 on: January 18, 2010, 11:12:29 am »
Is the r pronunced like the spanish word pero?
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Offline kewnya txamew'itan

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Re: Pronouncing that tricky R - The Alveolar flap
« Reply #37 on: January 18, 2010, 11:16:12 am »
It is indeed.
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Offline Tsawkeyä Unilyu

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Re: Pronouncing that tricky R - The Alveolar flap
« Reply #38 on: January 18, 2010, 11:25:17 am »
because in the movie when they said it it kind of sounded like a d sound
thanks a lot
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Offline kewnya txamew'itan

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Re: Pronouncing that tricky R - The Alveolar flap
« Reply #39 on: January 18, 2010, 11:30:19 am »
You have to bear in mind that most of the actors have American English as their first language where a t or d is often realised as an alveolar flap so they may have been taught that it was similar and have slipped into the d from the r.
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