Pronunciation of "oe"

Started by Plumps, January 05, 2010, 08:58:11 AM

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Plumps

Okay,

I was listening to Prof. Frommer speaking out the phrase in Nightline (youtube.com/watch?v=1fZZbTYdPBk) again.

Am I hearing it right him pronouncing "oel" as something like *[ wεl ]? That was confusing to me because up until now I always thought it something like [ oεl ]

Thanks so much for any thoughts you might have on that. :)

Atanä mungeyu

i've heard a interview at talknavi.com and frommer himself pronounces it as;
oh-el/o-wel but then really fast(wel would be a good example but start it with as if saying o-wel)
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Doolio

maybe frommer himself makes mistakes :D

i mean, both "o" and "e" are monophthongs, so, considering na'vi phonetics it would be correct to say it as [oεl] and not [ouεl] or [owεl].
as a matter of fact, that clip of frommer pronouncing it confuses me too. but i am more inclined to think that it is [oεl], if nothing, it sounds more in tune with the language. if it weren't the case, we would say 'she' (poe) as in english  - [pow] or [pou] and not [poε] like we should.
...taj rad...

Plumps

Alright, good to know that I'm not the only one who's confused by that or who has noticed that.
Well, I know my DVD-player will be stressed out when I'll let the Na'vi parts repeat in a loop to get it right ;D ... or: ideally, listen to the Audio-CD coming with the book ;D ... well, a man can dream, can't he? 8)

Mech

I think that in non-written languages like Aztecan, "o" between vowels sometimes sounds like "w", or rather "w" sounds like "o" and written like that

For example Nawatl (the Aztecan language) is also spelled "Naoatl"

Since na'vi is a non-written primitive language I guess one should expect this liberalism in pronounciation.

Doolio

'nawatl' is the english written approx of the name of aztec language. it has nothing to do with the language in question, it is an english word that you pronounce by english pronunciation.
the language itself probably had determined pronunciation.
...taj rad...

Mech

Yup, the proper pronunciation can be heard here: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/1/1e/Nawatl.ogg

The Spaniards wrote it "Nahuatl" and that's how it's "properly" spelled

Hawnuyu atìtse'a

I've pronounced like I'm saying "oh well" really fast for oel, and pronounced oe like "wet". Correct me if I'm wrong (I don't like IPA btw).
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Rey ulte ting rey.

Atanä mungeyu

it's actually quite good a explanation XD
nice,
eywa ayngahu
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omängum fra'uti

You can hear a similar pronunciation to Frommer's in the movie, it's said pretty quickly so it can be hard to pick out the sounds, but you should be starting with the more open sound of /o/ and not the more closed sound of /w/, then just quickly add in "Ell".  So "Oh ell" is probably a rather close approximation of how it's pronounced, if you say that really fast.
Ftxey lu nga tokx ftxey lu nga tirea? Lu oe tìkeftxo.
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Tsamsiyu Atsteu

I pronounce "oe" as oh-ay and "oel" as owell is that  right? Confused here, a bit.
To live in the past is to die in the present.

jasgor9

Tsamsiyu Atsteu, I say it the same as you do. Oe = oh way, and oel = oh well (emphasis on the e though).

Erimeyz

I'm afraid that's not quite right.  Na'vi e is always pronounced like the e in English set, never like ay in English way or hay or say.

This is sometimes hard for English speakers, because the sound of e in set almost never comes at the end of a word, but it often does in Na'vi - like in oe or kame or hehe.  English speakers have a tendency to pronounce those like "oh-ay" or "ka-may" or "heh-hay".  But the correct pronunciation is closer to "oh-eh" and "ka-meh" and "heh-heh".

It will take some practice to get used to.

  - Eri

Atanä mungeyu

i don't remember where i got i from, but i think oel should be pronounced like ''well''
but whatevar
PS, my neighbor is freaking out again... rofl
I haz teh DVD yaaaayy xD


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Nìwotxkrr Tìyawn

I'm siding with Eri and Omängum on this one, not only because they are some of the leading leading Na'vi grammar Nazis, I consider myself a "mini" grammar nazi and an almost full fledged pronunciation communist.

The reason it sounds like "well" to some people is because when you glide an "o" and an "e" together it sounds like a "w".
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Tsamsiyu Atsteu

So emphasis on the "eh" part in Oe then? like ka-mEH or oEH?

Quote from: Erimeyz on February 26, 2010, 10:50:51 AM
I'm afraid that's not quite right.  Na'vi e is always pronounced like the e in English set, never like ay in English way or hay or say.

This is sometimes hard for English speakers, because the sound of e in set almost never comes at the end of a word, but it often does in Na'vi - like in oe or kame or hehe.  English speakers have a tendency to pronounce those like "oh-ay" or "ka-may" or "heh-hay".  But the correct pronunciation is closer to "oh-eh" and "ka-meh" and "heh-heh".

It will take some practice to get used to.

  - Eri

To live in the past is to die in the present.

omängum fra'uti

The stresses are like this...

Oel ngati kameie
Ftxey lu nga tokx ftxey lu nga tirea? Lu oe tìkeftxo.
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Tsamsiyu Atsteu

So that would be:
O-ell nig-at ka-me-ay?

Quote from: omängum fra'uti on February 26, 2010, 09:51:10 PM
The stresses are like this...

Oel ngati kameie
To live in the past is to die in the present.

Ftiafpi

Just want to post this in here in the event that someone stumbles upon this old thread.

Frommer has clarified that "oe" can be contracted down to one syllable if desired:
http://forum.learnnavi.org/language-updates/a-long-answer-to-a-quick-question/

A "rule of thumb" would be like this:

Quote from: Karyu PawlThe rule for these pronouns is as follows:

If the "oe" element comes at the end of the word, pronounce the two vowels separately; otherwise pronounce them as "weh." So oe and moe have two syllables and ayoe has three, but oel has one. However, in the dual and trial forms prefixed with m and px respectively, the vowels of oe are ALWAYS pronounced separately. So, for example, oel is one syllable but moel and pxoel are two.