questions

Started by Syulang, June 26, 2011, 05:40:38 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Syulang

well, yeah i have a couple of questions.  :)

do you say the 'l' in Oel? when I've heard it it just sounds like 'oe'
how do you pronounce kameie? I've heard it pronounced by neytiri as kam-ee-ay, and kame ( though i think kame is just the shortened version) but i have heard jake say it is ka-may-ah? corrections?  ???
also, how do you say 'of', is it just lu?

thanks for any help  ;D
Oel ayngati kameie ma oeyä aysmukan sì aysmuke ulte Eywa ayngahu livu

munea kifkey, 'awa soaia

Kamean

I in oel should be pronounced.

Kam-ei-e.

No. We speak this way:
Na'rìngä ayutral lu tsawl nìtxan. The trees of the forest is very high.

:)
Tse'a ngal ke'ut a krr fra'uti kame.


Tirea Aean

#2
it will sound like

welngAti KAH-meh-ee-eh

i have a GREAT recording of Paul Frommer saying Kaltxì Oel ngati kameie. I will upload that soon.

nari ikranä = ikran's eye OR eye of ikran
horen lì'fyayä lena'vi = rules of the Na'vi language

to provide more examples to confirm what Kamean said.

Kemaweyan

Quote from: Syulang on June 26, 2011, 05:40:38 PM
do you say the 'l' in Oel? when I've heard it it just sounds like 'oe'

The word is just oe, but we could attach case endings to it. l is the ending of agentive case which is used for subjects of transitive verbs (only is there is direct object too). But if the verb is intransitive or there is not a direct object (in patientive case), then we use nominative case for subject - i.e. just oe. So you could hear both forms: oe and oel. For example:

 Oe taron.
 I hunt.

 Oel taron yerikit.
 I hunt a hexapede.

Quote from: Syulang on June 26, 2011, 05:40:38 PM
how do you pronounce kameie? I've heard it pronounced by neytiri as kam-ee-ay, and kame ( though i think kame is just the shortened version) but i have heard jake say it is ka-may-ah? corrections?  ???

The verb is kame, but we could add there infixes. Unlike prefixes and suffixes, we add infixes into a root: kam<ei>e. The infix -ei- means positive attitude to this thing, so Oel ngati kameie means "I See you (and it's pleasurable to me)".

Quote from: Syulang on June 26, 2011, 05:40:38 PM
also, how do you say 'of', is it just lu?

As Kamean already said, it's just genitive. The phrase "a leaf of tree" in Na'vi would be rìk utralä.
Nìrangal frapo tsirvun pivlltxe nìNa'vi :D

Tirea Aean

#4
Quote from: Kemaweyan on June 26, 2011, 06:09:27 PM
Quote from: Syulang on June 26, 2011, 05:40:38 PM
do you say the 'l' in Oel? when I've heard it it just sounds like 'oe'

The word is just oe, but we could attach case endings to it. l is the ending of agentive case which is used for subjects of transitive verbs (only is there is direct object too). But if the verb is intransitive or there is not a direct object (in patientive case), then we use nominative case for subject - i.e. just oe. So you could hear both forms: oe and oel. For example:

  Oe taron.
  I hunt.

  Oel taron yerikit.
  I hunt a hexapede.

Quote from: Syulang on June 26, 2011, 05:40:38 PM
how do you pronounce kameie? I've heard it pronounced by neytiri as kam-ee-ay, and kame ( though i think kame is just the shortened version) but i have heard jake say it is ka-may-ah? corrections?  ???

The verb is kame, but we could add there infixes. Unlike prefixes and suffixes, we add infixes into a root: kam<ei>e. The infix -ei- means positive attitude to this thing, so Oel ngati kameie means "I See you (and it's pleasurable to me)".

Quote from: Syulang on June 26, 2011, 05:40:38 PM
also, how do you say 'of', is it just lu?

As Kamean already said, it's just genitive. The phrase "a leaf of tree" in Na'vi would be rìk utralä.

if i read op correctly she wanted to know pronunciation of oel ngati kameie not necessarily the etymology and grammatical aspects and case system, though helpful and insightful. :)


Kemaweyan

Quote from: Tirea Aean on June 26, 2011, 06:12:23 PM
if i read op correctly she wanted to know pronunciation of oel ngati kameie not necessarily the etymology and grammatical aspects and case system.

If the question regards only to phrase oel ngati kameie, then oe is incorrect :) It should be oel. And right, it sounds close to [wɛl] or [uɛl]. But I think kameie we should pronounce as kam-ei-ye. IMO.
Nìrangal frapo tsirvun pivlltxe nìNa'vi :D

Tirea Aean

#6
iiuc, she was asking if the lel of oel is pronounced or silent or something. clearly due to grammar the word in this sentence is oel not oe.

listening to this clip of frommer (which i will upload in a few mins when i get to a computer) it sounds like


Wel NGAH-tee KAH-meh-yeh

Kemaweyan

Quote from: Tirea Aean on June 26, 2011, 06:23:42 PM
iiuc, she was asking if the lel of oel is pronounced or silent or something. clearly due to grammar the word in this sentence is oel not oe.

And I think it should be pronounced clearly. At least I hear it in Pawl's pronunciation.

Quote from: Tirea Aean on June 26, 2011, 06:23:42 PM
listening to this clip of frommer (which i will upload in a few mins when i get to a computer) it sounds like

Wel NGAH-tee KAH-meh-yeh

Mllte. Agree :)
Nìrangal frapo tsirvun pivlltxe nìNa'vi :D

Tirea Aean

i cannot argue that the l in oel is indeed pronounced. oel sounds similar to english word "well"

archaic

Oel alway's thought so. ???
Pasha, an Avatar story, my most recent fanfic, Avatar related, now complete.

The Dragon Affair my last fanfic, non Avatar related.

Tirea Aean


archaic

Pasha, an Avatar story, my most recent fanfic, Avatar related, now complete.

The Dragon Affair my last fanfic, non Avatar related.

Tirea Aean


archaic

Soz, I knew that, I just mistyped. It's late, I'm tired.
Pasha, an Avatar story, my most recent fanfic, Avatar related, now complete.

The Dragon Affair my last fanfic, non Avatar related.

Syulang

Irayo ma oeya tsmukan si tsmuke, for all the help  :) i think i heard cameron say 'oel' as 'weyl' at some award speech. now i can go off and greet people properly  ;D
Oel ayngati kameie ma oeyä aysmukan sì aysmuke ulte Eywa ayngahu livu

munea kifkey, 'awa soaia

Tirea Aean

#15
Quote from: Syulang on June 26, 2011, 09:28:13 PM
Irayo ma oeya tsmukan si tsmuke, for all the help  :) i think i heard cameron say 'oel' as 'weyl' at some award speech. now i can go off and greet people properly  ;D

OH! this reminded me to finally post that recording! Here it is! :D


Paul Frommer: Kaltxì! Oel ngati kameie.


'Oma Tirea

My pronounciation of oel: I prefer to keep the o-sound intact.  I find it only shifts to [u] after <u> or <w>, n.k. spaw oel is more like [spaw wɛl], but otherwise it's like [oɛ͡l].

I also do this with oet(i), oer(u) and oetsyìp, as well as other similar words, too.  In fact, the [o] may even shift a little to [ɔ].

[img]http://swokaikran.skxawng.lu/sigbar/nwotd.php?p=2b[/img]

ÌTXTSTXRR!!

Srake serar le'Ìnglìsìa lì'fyayä aylì'ut?  Nari si älofoniru rutxe!!

Tirea Aean

Quote from: 'Oma Tirea on June 27, 2011, 12:22:38 AM
My pronounciation of oel: I prefer to keep the o-sound intact.  I find it only shifts to [u] after <u> or <w>, n.k. spaw oel is more like [spaw wɛl], but otherwise it's like [oɛ͡l].

I also do this with oet(i), oer(u) and oetsyìp, as well as other similar words, too.  In fact, the [o] may even shift a little to [ɔ].



Quote from: Paul Frommer on March 22, 2010
Ngeyä tìpawmerì oe seiyi irayo.
Yes, you're right: the "oe" element in personal pronouns is sometimes pronounced in two syllables ("oh-eh") and sometimes one ("weh").
The general rule is that all vowels in a word are pronounced separately. The most extreme of example of this (so far!) is meoauniaea, which has 8 distinct syllables, all gliding smoothly from one to another.
But with the "oe" words, which are among the most common in the language, it's probable that more compact pronunciations evolved. People contract and shorten words all the time, especially the ones they use most frequently. In English, for example, "I am" is usually "I'm" in casual speech: two syllables have become one. The difference is that in English we change the spelling and punctuation to go along with the streamlined pronunciation while in Na'vi we don't. But the principle is the same.
So in careful, formal speech, "oeru" might be 3 full syllables. (And note that in honorific style, it's definitely 3: oheru.) But in ordinary conversation, "oeru" is normally "weh-ru."
The rule for these pronouns is as follows:
If the "oe" element comes at the end of the word, pronounce the two vowels separately; otherwise pronounce them as "weh." So oe and moe have two syllables and ayoe has three, but oel has one. However, in the dual and trial forms prefixed with m and px respectively, the vowels of oe are ALWAYS pronounced separately. So, for example, oel is one syllable but moel and pxoel are two.
Sìlpey oe tsnì fìtìoeyktìng* law livu ngaru set.
Trr lefpom livu ngar.
ta P.
source

'Oma Tirea

[ʦat ɔɛl omum] ma T.A., and in fact, as I say it, [o] is more of a mid vowel than a mid-close vowel, and [ɔ] is a mere allophone of [o], just like in Spanish.

I don't believe there are any canonical sources on that (yet) ;)

[img]http://swokaikran.skxawng.lu/sigbar/nwotd.php?p=2b[/img]

ÌTXTSTXRR!!

Srake serar le'Ìnglìsìa lì'fyayä aylì'ut?  Nari si älofoniru rutxe!!

`Eylan Ayfalulukanä

Quote from: Syulang on June 26, 2011, 09:28:13 PM
Irayo ma oeya tsmukan si tsmuke, for all the help  :) i think i heard cameron say 'oel' as 'weyl' at some award speech. now i can go off and greet people properly  ;D

Paul Frommer's pronunciations are canon. Note that the 'well' form of oel is only used if oel is not at the end of the sentence. There, you enunciate the word more formally, like 'ooel'.

The other common oe word with a run-together prononciation is oeru. This can be pronounced 'weru' when not at the end of a sentence. Then it is 'ooeru'.

As far as i understand, use of the run-together pronunciations is optional, but encouraged.

Yawey ngahu!
pamrel si ro [email protected]