Trills for the Native English Speaker

Started by Seze, December 21, 2009, 11:10:47 PM

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Tsyaltuan

If you can make the trill sound in the back of your throat then add the R sound to it is this acceptable? I speak English natively and I've tried everything to try and trill with my tongue but I just can't do it continuously. I can do the single flap but that's it.

Roiki

#41
The "rr" used in Na'vi is much like the one used in the Finnish language(don't know if it was copied from it as well) so i found a link that might help.
http://www.unilang.org/viewtopic.php?f=46&t=22118

The most prominent example is from the word "perkele" which has its "r" rolled to become stronger and longer sound. You can listen some examples in this video:
Perkele!
Slow is smooth, smooth is fast.

Uniltìranyu

#42
Quote from: Roiki on January 01, 2010, 05:19:25 PM
The "rr" used in Na'vi is much like the one used in the Finnish language(don't know if it was copied from it as well) so i found a link that might help.
http://www.unilang.org/viewtopic.php?f=46&t=22118

The most prominent example is from the word "perkele" which has its "r" rolled to become stronger and longer sound. You can listen some examples in this video:
Perkele!

It's like they're purring in the middle of the word!

OMG I CAN DO THE TRILL NOW! just think about purring MIDDLE of the word where the trill occurs.
Eywa ayngahu, frapo nìNa'vi paylltxeie...
May Eywa be with you, all Na'vi speakers.

Sänra

I actually seem to be having the opposite problem. I can manage the trill OK (I suspect it is due to imitating some Scottish friends in my youth) but have trouble NOT trilling and getting that 'single flap'. To me, it sounds like my tongue is vibrating twice instead of once. Is this acceptable? About the only way I can manage (except with some words where the tongue is already touching the palate) is to make a sort of silent 'h' in front of the 'r' sound, this seems to huff with enough force to make the single flap.

I'm having some difficulty figuring out if the sounds I'm making are more or less correct, especially since the audio I have heard on YouTube is mostly done by Americans (I am Australian).

Txur’Itan

私は太った男だ。


Numeie

Quote from: Tirealì'u on December 22, 2009, 12:44:23 AM
In one of the interviews with Frommer, he commented that some of the lines were not pronounced correctly in the movie, which wasn't intentional - but he let it slide, because they were mistakes by characters who would, realistically, be making errors anyway.
Actually I noticed that it's quite unrealistic in that you never see Jake correct himself. He's not speaking fluently after 3 months (which would be very impressive even at his level of immersion!) because he has to ask for translation, but he seems very sure of everything he does say in Na'vi.

(Back on topic: I can trill rr when singing but I rarely manage it when speaking. Maybe I speak too quietly).
Hispanohablantes, si queréis contribuir al wiki de Avatar en español os lo agradecería. http://es.james-camerons-avatar.wikia.com/

Taronyu

Quote from: Numeie on January 05, 2010, 09:05:06 AM
Quote from: Tirealì'u on December 22, 2009, 12:44:23 AM
In one of the interviews with Frommer, he commented that some of the lines were not pronounced correctly in the movie, which wasn't intentional - but he let it slide, because they were mistakes by characters who would, realistically, be making errors anyway.
Actually I noticed that it's quite unrealistic in that you never see Jake correct himself. He's not speaking fluently after 3 months (which would be very impressive even at his level of immersion!) because he has to ask for translation, but he seems very sure of everything he does say in Na'vi.

He had good genes, though. His brother had a doctorate. Maybe he wasn't as stupid as people said he was.

Numeie

Quote from: Taronyu on January 05, 2010, 09:16:55 AM
He had good genes, though. His brother had a doctorate. Maybe he wasn't as stupid as people said he was.
He was a Marine, so I assume he's not stupid, but that doesn't make him a supernaturally good linguist. From my own experience and from observing many other people I know that L2 speakers try their best but keep correcting themselves or asking whether they said something correctly.
Hispanohablantes, si queréis contribuir al wiki de Avatar en español os lo agradecería. http://es.james-camerons-avatar.wikia.com/

Seze

The idea of starting with the uvular trill and pushing it forward to become the alveolar trill is an awesome idea, and I have had some success with it after only a couple minutes of trying.  First time I've actually felt the tip of my tongue vibrate, though I can't be certain that it's not just my whole mouth thats vibrating.  Anyways, its great to actually feel something different going on.  Will keep working on it...


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kewnya txamew'itan

Quote from: Sänra on January 05, 2010, 01:18:42 AM
I actually seem to be having the opposite problem. I can manage the trill OK (I suspect it is due to imitating some Scottish friends in my youth) but have trouble NOT trilling and getting that 'single flap'. To me, it sounds like my tongue is vibrating twice instead of once. Is this acceptable? About the only way I can manage (except with some words where the tongue is already touching the palate) is to make a sort of silent 'h' in front of the 'r' sound, this seems to huff with enough force to make the single flap.

I'm having some difficulty figuring out if the sounds I'm making are more or less correct, especially since the audio I have heard on YouTube is mostly done by Americans (I am Australian).

the single flap might sound a bit like two trills as in a single trill you let air through at the beginning and end of the flap, this is probably causing the "double flap" effect you're getting.

As for the audio, might an English voice be more useful than an American, or at least might the two together be useful?

Because I uploaded an audio here that is me talking through all the sounds in Na'vi, it's about 11 minutes long.
Internet Acronyms Nìna'vi

hamletä tìralpuseng lena'vi sngolä'eiyi. tìkangkem si awngahu ro
http://bit.ly/53GnAB
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txo nga new oehu pivlltxe nìna'vi, nga oer 'eylan si mì fayspuk (http://bit.ly/bp9fwf)
If you want to speak na'vi to me, friend me on facebook (http://bit.ly/bp9fwf)

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learnnavi's

Kreagus

Quote from: Seze on December 21, 2009, 11:25:07 PM
My problem is that I can't get the initial basic trill going.

I too have been working on this the last couple days. My spanish teacher told me to just repeat the word Ladder to myself over and over again. And gradually get faster and faster. Eventually the "dd" will start to come out like a trilled r. and then once youve trained your brain to make a roll sound for "dd" just when a word trills think of that.

Sänra

Quote
As for the audio, might an English voice be more useful than an American, or at least might the two together be useful?

Thank you very much for pointing me to your TalkNavi clip kawng, it did help me a lot to hear the sounds in an English accent (which is after all much closer to my own). Much appreciated mate.


AyekongAyauyä

I'm one of those people who just couldn't get it for the longest time, to the point that I only got it while taking Russian in college, even though I'd taken Spanish for four years in high school. ??? I got it through the process of just repeating the "tap" as much as possible, as fast as possible - the brute force approach.

Ikranä mokri

i found speaking like ascottish person helps with this. if u really emphasise the rs in hte words they say then for me it just happens but im one of these people who can just roll their rs.

its your tounge that does the vibrating put your tounge on the roof of ur mouth behind ur teeth then sorta try to growl like a dog and it sorta happens





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