"Tsap'lute" or "Tsapxalute"?

Started by Rikxyu, February 24, 2010, 04:46:58 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Rikxyu

Sorry if this topic has already been covered. I looked for it and didn't find it so...

In the pocket guide, "apologise" is spelled "tsapxalute."
On the dictionary page, it is spelled "tsap'alute."

Which form is correct? I saw (while lurking) that someone said the pocket guide needed to be changed. But how would one pronounce the p followed by a glottal stop? Every time I try it, it comes out sounding like an ejective. Any tips?
The All Things Avatar Podcast has an episode 3 now! Download it here: http://radioavatar.podomatic.com/

"Nearly all men can stand adversity, but if you want to test a man's character, give him power." ~Abraham Lincoln
Just look at what happened to Quaritch...

Fnua Atxkxe

I'll give this a shot but i could be wrong :-\. My understanding of the glottal stop is that it is literaly a stop (closing of the glottis) i.e no sound produced. Think of Na'vi (there are audio clips if you need them) repeat word Na'vi and then try and imitate glottal stop in na'vi after p in tsap'alute. You should not be releasing any air on the glottal stop unlike ejectives that are created by a strong burst of air. Put your hand up to your mouth and you should feel if you're producing air or not :)
Anyone feel free to add me on msn or skype: [email protected]

Oe kamä ìlä oeyä txe´lan ulte fìtsenge leiu oel hu ayngati ma oeyä smukan sì smuke ulte nga ma Coga, nì´ul to fra´u ^_^

Rikxyu

So should the p sound like I'm just closing my mouth? No popping sound at all, even if it is very subtle? I think I might have it now...
The All Things Avatar Podcast has an episode 3 now! Download it here: http://radioavatar.podomatic.com/

"Nearly all men can stand adversity, but if you want to test a man's character, give him power." ~Abraham Lincoln
Just look at what happened to Quaritch...

Fnua Atxkxe

The best example we have is the expression uh-oh, without thinking about it you have just pronounced two glottal stops, one at beggining of uh and one before oh, touch your throat as you say and you will feel what it does. It's not really like closing your mouth, I found this site helpful http://masempul.org/. It contains an audio of a long message fro Frommer himself that demonstrates ejectives and glottal stops in it. There is also plenty of info in the begginer section on pronounciation, chances are if you're tripping up on it someone already has ;D
Anyone feel free to add me on msn or skype: [email protected]

Oe kamä ìlä oeyä txe´lan ulte fìtsenge leiu oel hu ayngati ma oeyä smukan sì smuke ulte nga ma Coga, nì´ul to fra´u ^_^

Rikxyu

I've got the glottal stop itself down. (I didn't realize how much we use it in 'ìnglìsì until studying Na'vi: Latin, uh-oh, what)
It was more of the placement behind the "p" that tripped me up. Your suggestion helped a lot. When I say it now, the "p" sounds more like an unvocalized "m" when the word is slowed down. I think that's right. It sounds a lot better to me.
The All Things Avatar Podcast has an episode 3 now! Download it here: http://radioavatar.podomatic.com/

"Nearly all men can stand adversity, but if you want to test a man's character, give him power." ~Abraham Lincoln
Just look at what happened to Quaritch...

Fnua Atxkxe

Also k, p and t are unaspirated in Na'vi which means that no burst of air to accompany letter, best explained here http://wiki.learnnavi.org/index.php?title=User:Erimeyz/Beginners'_Guide/Letters_and_Sounds#Consonants.2C_Part_II. I don't think p is supposed to sound like unvocalised m. Check out http://masempul.org/ as it really does cover most of the phonetics of the language, I think Frommer used the word Fpole which demonstrates the sound of the p, then just add your glottal and your done.
Anyone feel free to add me on msn or skype: [email protected]

Oe kamä ìlä oeyä txe´lan ulte fìtsenge leiu oel hu ayngati ma oeyä smukan sì smuke ulte nga ma Coga, nì´ul to fra´u ^_^

Rikxyu

Irayo!
Those resources help a ton.
Eywa ngahu, tsmuktu.
The All Things Avatar Podcast has an episode 3 now! Download it here: http://radioavatar.podomatic.com/

"Nearly all men can stand adversity, but if you want to test a man's character, give him power." ~Abraham Lincoln
Just look at what happened to Quaritch...

wm.annis

Quote from: Rikxyu on February 24, 2010, 04:46:58 PMIn the pocket guide, "apologise" is spelled "tsapxalute."

That is an error.  In many languages that have ejectives they are notated with a following apostrophe — just like a glottal stop.  For example, Navajo át'é would be spelled in Na'vi like atxe.  However, Frommer used the px tx kx notation because it would be ambiguous in Na'vi to use the apostrophe — both hap'i and hapxi are legal — and different — words.

I assume someone got confused by the tsap'alute, and assumed it was actually an ejective in there.