Author Topic: Astral Projection: Gateway to Other Worlds  (Read 5110 times)

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Offline Tsawla Eltu Tsamsiyu

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Astral Projection: Gateway to Other Worlds
« on: November 22, 2010, 02:00:13 pm »
I'm back and better than ever! Forgive me for not posting in such a long time, but believe me when I say it hurt me more than it hurt you. Anyway, I've been running down the path of self discovery all this time and I have found many an interesting thing. One of those things I have spent so much time learning about (but not actually being able to learn) is Astral Projection. Luckily I have found someone who can teach me. There are some interesting points about Astral Projection that I would like to talk about. I have seen many a post about Lucid Dreaming and turning your dreams into whatever you want. The same is true about Astral Projection, except that you don't necessarily have to make it yourself, or so I've learned. I will have to find out on my own in the next few weeks, but I had heard many people (who have projected) say that, on the Astral Plane, everything you think is real. All that you can think of becomes real on the Astral Plane. That means that thanks to all the hard work by Cameron, everyone who worked on the movie(s)/games(s)/other media, and of course all the dedicated members of Learnnavi.org, and everyone who at least thought about it, there is a Pandora on the Astral Plane. All the Na'vi are there as well and you can interact with them in your Astral State, or Form (if what I've heard is true, which it may not be). I do not know if that is all a lie or if it is at least true in part. My instructor has never tried going farther than her own bedroom, but I will. I start my "classes" in a couple days. When I feel comfortable I will attempt to find paradise. I will share my knowledge and discoveries with the rest of you who want to learn. If it is successful, then we can gain much knowledge from the Na'vi "themselves." If it fails.... Wish me luck.
There is no emotion, there is peace.
There is no ignorance, there is knowledge.
There is no passion, there is serenity.
There is no chaos, there is harmony.
There is no death, there is the Force.

Offline Tonbogiri

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Re: Astral Projection: Gateway to Other Worlds
« Reply #1 on: November 22, 2010, 02:15:05 pm »
Good luck to you indeed!

Everyone has their own ways of appreciating Avatar - learning the language, starting a tribe, and in your case going a step further and really trying to get into that world. I wish you well on your journey - often, a person's greatest mystery is that inside their own soul, and I feel that you will find out much as you learn.

As for learning from the Na'Vi themselves, I look forward to your feedback - while physical skills may not be transferable (forgive me if I am wrong, I have never even attempted astral projection), how you truly "see" the world around you may be changed forever.

But remember - don't get lost in the dream. As wonderful as it seems, in the words of Jake Sully "sooner or later...you have to wake up". Make sure you draw the line between dream and reality.
Keep us posted on your progress - who knows, you might find a location this way  ;)...


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Offline Tsyal Maktoyu

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Re: Astral Projection: Gateway to Other Worlds
« Reply #2 on: November 22, 2010, 04:23:35 pm »
Good luck! I've been working on Astral Projection myself, and from what I have experienced, I'd say it's very real! ;D I've had a few good cases of remote viewing, too, while meditating ("saw" the clock with my back turned, and then confirmed the time with my iPhone! ;D). I haven't managed to go very far yet (only within the room), but I'm working on it.

Though be prepared for what you might encounter, both while leaving your body and while on the plane (dark energies, etc). I have a tendency to project violently. I basically get shoved/ripped out of my body. Be prepared for something that intense. Though believe me, it's worth it. ;)


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Offline palulukanmoctow

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Re: Astral Projection: Gateway to Other Worlds
« Reply #3 on: November 23, 2010, 12:46:54 pm »
I don't know about you but my fascination with astral projection started with my interest in auric manipulation. Many people know about healing with it, (chios healing) but I took it a step further and started learning to use it to manipulate other thing besides healing, but anyway, I have found only one draw back to astral projection:a single change to ur material body, be it temp, getting hit, etc will fling u back to it faster than a rocket. And that can be VERY disorientating. I personally have never tried doing it and staying on earth. I kind of....skipped that part. I can conjure and control anything when projected, location, creatures, events, but the slightest lapse in concentration and bang. Your back and feel very messed up. Balance problems, feel still kind of detached, sore, etc.

Offline Uriuujìn

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Re: Astral Projection: Gateway to Other Worlds
« Reply #4 on: December 22, 2010, 11:57:19 pm »
Any updates on this? It looks to be a very interesting prospect that I for one am completely interested in. May the Earth Mother guide you on your travels, not only here, but in other planes as well ^_^

-Uriuujìn
All of existence is based on the balance of energy, the exchange of good and evil, light and dark, life and death. The earth goddess teaches us that the latter balance is the most important. She takes no sides, but loves all life.
Without balance, Existence would crumble, and cease to be.
-Uriuujìn


Offline Tsawla Eltu Tsamsiyu

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Re: Astral Projection: Gateway to Other Worlds
« Reply #5 on: July 13, 2011, 12:57:02 am »
Any updates on this? It looks to be a very interesting prospect that I for one am completely interested in. May the Earth Mother guide you on your travels, not only here, but in other planes as well ^_^

-Uriuujìn

I am sorry for not keeping you all updated on my progress. Its partly because I have not made any progress. In truth, I have been avoiding posting tat out of shame. I have recently gotten over that as I have reminded myself that I AM a Jedi. I shouldn't feel shame, let alone let it control me like this. Instead of using this thread to update you all on MY progress (which I'll still do), I would like to shift the focus a little toward the learning aspect.

Good luck! I've been working on Astral Projection myself, and from what I have experienced, I'd say it's very real! ;D I've had a few good cases of remote viewing, too, while meditating ("saw" the clock with my back turned, and then confirmed the time with my iPhone! ;D). I haven't managed to go very far yet (only within the room), but I'm working on it.

Though be prepared for what you might encounter, both while leaving your body and while on the plane (dark energies, etc). I have a tendency to project violently. I basically get shoved/ripped out of my body. Be prepared for something that intense. Though believe me, it's worth it. ;)

I tried to project with a few methods I picked up from others. Unfortunately my "teacher" is EXCEEDINGLY reluctant to teach me and, as I feared, she couldn't teach me before I moved. I tried most to go through progressive relaxation of all of my muscles, meditating, and from there I've tried a few MORE methods of projecting. The farthest I ever got was the early vibrational stages. If YOU could perhaps teach me?

I don't know about you but my fascination with astral projection started with my interest in auric manipulation. Many people know about healing with it, (chios healing) but I took it a step further and started learning to use it to manipulate other thing besides healing, but anyway, I have found only one draw back to astral projection:a single change to ur material body, be it temp, getting hit, etc will fling u back to it faster than a rocket. And that can be VERY disorientating. I personally have never tried doing it and staying on earth. I kind of....skipped that part. I can conjure and control anything when projected, location, creatures, events, but the slightest lapse in concentration and bang. Your back and feel very messed up. Balance problems, feel still kind of detached, sore, etc.

I learned about it from a fascination with the potential of my newfound Jedi philosophy. Irayo for the warnings, but of course I'll continue along with my plans.

As my initial plans have all gone to hell, I plan to get them back. Since I have lost my teacher, I am eagerly looking forward to any help anyone can give me on how to project. I know that if I can just get out, I can figure the rest out myself and I know that I can always come back and ask my questions that need answers.

Again I apologize for not keeping you in the loop and I feel terrible about it.
There is no emotion, there is peace.
There is no ignorance, there is knowledge.
There is no passion, there is serenity.
There is no chaos, there is harmony.
There is no death, there is the Force.

Offline Txontaw

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Re: Astral Projection: Gateway to Other Worlds
« Reply #6 on: July 14, 2011, 12:13:11 am »
My body lies over the ocean.
My body lies over the sea.
I'm no good at astral projection.
So bring back my body to me.
"You're not in Kansas anymore. You're on Pandora, Ladies and Gentlemen." - Colonel Quaritch


Offline Tsyal Maktoyu

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Re: Astral Projection: Gateway to Other Worlds
« Reply #7 on: July 14, 2011, 03:00:27 am »
Tsawla - TBH there's not really much I could teach you. I've just been meditating and following tutorials I've come accross on Youtube. Though if you have an iPhone or iTouch, I recommend you try out some of the binaural beat apps. And tbh I haven't really practiced this in a while, right now I'm practicing more on lucid dreaming. I really should get back into this. :)


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Offline Irtaviš Ačankif

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Re: Astral Projection: Gateway to Other Worlds
« Reply #8 on: July 15, 2011, 03:17:23 am »
You should read Stephen LaBerge's paper on OBEs. I share his opinion - OBEs and astral projection are dreams. Your consciousness do not actually float into the external world, instead, you float inside the recorded model of external world existing inside your brain. Have you tried to have somebody come in and write something on the blackboard and then erasing it before you wake up?

The clock-time thingy I have tried before, it works sometimes, but not always. Usually before you go to sleep (or float into the astral plane, whatever) you look at the watch, and your brain keeps the watch in its internal model of the world ticking, and when you enter the internal world, the time is correct.

However, I can never forget the INNUMERABLE times the clocks I saw in my "out-of-body" excursions were wrong. One very memorable one was this:

I floated around the room and saw the clock. It read 6:50 AM. I thought, great, ten minutes before the alarm goes off. Then I think that maybe I should wake up right now, and I wake up. I read the clock. It says 9:24. Dammit! Overslept again!

I am planning on controlled experiments regarding astral projection. If you want to participate, please PM or e-mail me. Even though my opinion is that AP/OBE is just internal dreams, I am more than glad to conduct research that disproves my opinion.
Previously Ithisa Kīranem, Uniltìrantokx te Skxawng.

Name from my Sakaš conlang, from Sakasul Ältäbisäl Acarankïp

"First name" is Ačankif, not Eltabiš! In Na'vi, Atsankip.

Offline Tsawla Eltu Tsamsiyu

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Re: Astral Projection: Gateway to Other Worlds
« Reply #9 on: August 18, 2011, 02:48:20 pm »
I've done a lot of research and practice. So far I've gotten to the "vibrational" stage. I can't seem to be able to focus enough to get beyond that point. I'm working on it. However, Uniltìrantokx te Skxawng, you may be right. Some people say that there is an astral plane where everything is created by thought (much like a lucid dream could be). Even if it IS just a "program" developed by your brain that is inhabited by other "programs", though, then should I not be able to communicate with them? The inhabitants of my Astral Realm (mental server) would, in theory, contain all of MY knowledge pertaining to them. But since they are a part of my mind, they should also be facets of my sub/consciousness. Thus they would be more like AI than just some kind of data storing program, as I would have knowledge of their personalities as well as mannerisms and appearances. So, in my Realm, they would be themselves, but with the limited knowledge I have gathered from/for them to be able to relay back to me. Assuming that they would be like AI created by my mind, then they would relay the information gathered by me in their own interpretation! This would lead me to conclude that if I met the subject either in this VERY lucid dream OR an actual astral realm, then I could unlearn what I have learned by relearning what I've already learned through the constructs of my sub/conscious thoughts. I could learn survival techniques from the Na'vi or, as a better example, the ways of the Force from Luke Skywalker. I know how Luke looks, how he acts, his mannerisms and personality; and (I've read nearly all of the Star Wars novels ever published) I have extensive knowledge of the Force, training techniques for Jedi, their philosophy, etc. In theory, I could LEARN everything from the "Luke" that inhabits my "Astral Realm". I could consult with Fisk Black about my current life situation. I could get advice from Mo'at about the perfect spiritual/practical location for the Tribe. All of this information I have gathered over my lifetime I would be able to access from a different point of view. So even though Astral Projection may just be a step farther than a Lucid Dream into our subconscious, its still practical and therefore I shall pursue it. .... Kinda makes you think, doesn't it?
There is no emotion, there is peace.
There is no ignorance, there is knowledge.
There is no passion, there is serenity.
There is no chaos, there is harmony.
There is no death, there is the Force.

Offline Irtaviš Ačankif

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Re: Astral Projection: Gateway to Other Worlds
« Reply #10 on: August 18, 2011, 08:13:58 pm »
No. That part of the brain is the low-level libraries and doesn't contain much information.

Astral Projection is a step LESS ADVANCED than lucid dreaming, I think. In a lucid dream you can explore the cached real world if you want. For example, false awakenings happen all of the time and you can use them to explore your cache.

If you understand programming, then let me put it this way. Your subconscious is kind of like <stdio.h>. You can't learn anything from it because it only knows about the imagination algorithms, et cetera. You will only get generated and interpolated content from things you already know.

The vibrational stage also occurs during the WILD and DEILD lucid dream induction techniques. This is actually sleep paralysis, when your body's sensations are cut off to prevent you from acting out your dreams in your real life body.

An excellent lucid dreaming website that is founded by the most prestigious scientist in lucid dreaming, Stephen LaBerge, - and contains no unscientific theories and such is http://www.lucidity.com/
If you want to discuss lucid dreaming you can go to http://www.dreamviews.com/ but beware there are a few members who are ardent believers in dream pseudoscience (astral plane, shared dreaming, precognitive dreaming, ma oeyä Eywa!) so don't take anything people post there as gospel, especially the science stuff. Most of the techniques there are very innovative better than the stock traditional ones, but some of their authors use incorrect theories to explain why the techniques work.

And by the way with lucid dreaming you can explore Pandora and be a Na'vi!
Previously Ithisa Kīranem, Uniltìrantokx te Skxawng.

Name from my Sakaš conlang, from Sakasul Ältäbisäl Acarankïp

"First name" is Ačankif, not Eltabiš! In Na'vi, Atsankip.

Offline Tsyal Maktoyu

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Re: Astral Projection: Gateway to Other Worlds
« Reply #11 on: August 18, 2011, 11:53:34 pm »
I agree with UtS on this...to a degree. All those things you with to do can be accomplished in a lucid dream. It's just a matter of summoning those characters as dream character projections and interviewing them that way. If you want to meet them in a certain place, incubate the thought in your mind before bed and affirm for it. You can check those linked sites for how to do that.

Not saying you couldn't do this in an astral plane if it exists (open minds, afterall ;)), but if you want your own retrospection on these issues, vanilla lucid dreaming is the best option. It's the best way to channel your own memories.

On the same note, I've stopped working on astral projection ATM. Right now I'm working on vanilla lucid dreaming, and ways to dilate time, or dream within a dream. So far I've managed to do do the latter, and the dream was even like Inception. Go figure.

Btw UtS that first link was interesting. Just read through the article about dream telepathy. Quite exciting that evidence shows that it might be real. Maybe there's more to "Beyond Dreaming" than you denegrate it to be. ;)
« Last Edit: August 19, 2011, 12:47:26 am by Tsyal Maktoyu »


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Offline Irtaviš Ačankif

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Re: Astral Projection: Gateway to Other Worlds
« Reply #12 on: August 19, 2011, 02:30:34 am »
That's what oe lu talking about. Lucidity.com uses legitimate double-blind controlled test that actually test the claim instead of irrevalent corrolares. I've had enough of people testing for radio waves emanating from an astral projector without even bothering to test the claims. I am not totally convinced though, since the results are just borderline statistically significant. That is just my personal opinion though. It is quite clear that their research is far far more rigourous than that of some mmbers at DreamViews.
Previously Ithisa Kīranem, Uniltìrantokx te Skxawng.

Name from my Sakaš conlang, from Sakasul Ältäbisäl Acarankïp

"First name" is Ačankif, not Eltabiš! In Na'vi, Atsankip.

Offline Tsyal Maktoyu

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Re: Astral Projection: Gateway to Other Worlds
« Reply #13 on: August 19, 2011, 02:35:40 am »
Both sides can make a pretty strong case, and so the debate continues I guess...


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"You mustn't be afraid to dream a little bigger, darling." - Inception

“Men will never be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest”. - Denis Diderot

Offline Irtaviš Ačankif

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Re: Astral Projection: Gateway to Other Worlds
« Reply #14 on: August 19, 2011, 08:29:53 pm »
At least it is now a real debate. It used to be a bunch of serious scientists getting undue slanders from pseudoscientists who think they are Galileos and then the real scientists get so pissed off that they make mistakes in their research. That is bad.

I'm not supporting the pseudoscientists only because they don't do research properly. If real SCIENTIFIC research proves dream telepathy I'm glad to believe in it, but as of now the results are mixed (identical tests sometimes argue in favor of D.T. and sometimes not), which indicates some sort of statistical fluctuation.
Previously Ithisa Kīranem, Uniltìrantokx te Skxawng.

Name from my Sakaš conlang, from Sakasul Ältäbisäl Acarankïp

"First name" is Ačankif, not Eltabiš! In Na'vi, Atsankip.

Offline Tsawla Eltu Tsamsiyu

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Re: Astral Projection: Gateway to Other Worlds
« Reply #15 on: August 19, 2011, 11:33:15 pm »
What if Astral Projection is a spiritual term for the act of Lucid Dreaming? In some cases I've read that AP is projecting your mind into a "cached real world", from whence I derived my idea stated earlier, and that LD can be used to access such a state, also from where I got the idea aforementioned that AP is deeper than LD. And how do we know how much information the different parts of the brain actually contain? A Sony Playstation memory card used to only hold 8mb and now there are memory cards (considerably smaller) that can hold up to 2Tb. What if the brain functions the same way? What if the deeper we delve the more we discover, as seems to be the case.

Back to my main point, what if they're the same? There is evidence that supports this. Whilst I cannot cite them at the moment, it would stand to reason that AP is just another form of LD at least. I'm pretty sure (Tsyal Maktoyu said this earlier) you can do everything in an LD that you can if you were to AP. I'm still new to the subject and haven't much to speculate on. It IS true, however, that both sides have decent arguments. I reason that in an LD, you may be more susceptible to the effects of morphic fields (I believe I have this right) and their tendencies to transmit unconscious thoughts, thereby allowing you access not only to your own summoned constructs, but collective ones generated by you and strengthened by the brain power of those around you. While you may get more information from an LD, it may be that you can get a better experience through AP. I've mainly focused on AP while only occasionally looking at LD.

For all I know, everything about AP could be completely wrong, but I chose to believe in it over LD. I also choose to believe that the two are inherently connected in some way, thus making them similar, if not in fact the same. Many people have the same dreams, though not exactly the same they are at least similar (falling, school related, leaving your body, etc.). Some cultures believed that there are different bodies that we inhabit, one of them being the Astral body. As long as there has been the concept of the Astral body, so too has there been the concept of Astral Projection (which usually occurs when you enter a controlled sleep state, much like LD). But someone who didn't know about AP would call the experience a Lucid Dream. So I propose that while the two may seem very different, they are also very much the same. I would like to hear more about Lucid Dreaming, as it may be easier than Projection (as I have been having trouble with that).

I, too, agree with the both of you to an extent, but when it all comes down to it, I think its the belief that matters most. You have to choose which side is best for you. I won't know until I've accomplished both and, as usual, I choose the harder one first. How do I know what anyone says is true? I do not. I must see for myself. I started this thread to try and end the debating of where would be the best place to start the Tribe, how we should go about doing so and many other, albeit unrelated, questions of my own that need answering. I now see that, though I believed AP was the best choice at the time, there are many other, possibly better, ways to go about accomplishing my task. I would like to thank both of you for your valuable input and am eagerly awaiting your responses and future discussions.
There is no emotion, there is peace.
There is no ignorance, there is knowledge.
There is no passion, there is serenity.
There is no chaos, there is harmony.
There is no death, there is the Force.

Offline Tsyal Maktoyu

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Re: Astral Projection: Gateway to Other Worlds
« Reply #16 on: August 20, 2011, 12:17:21 am »
TBH studying "fringe" science (trying to avoid calling this pseudoscience, because if there really is study being done, it's not really pseudo anymore! ;D) has always been taboo. From what I could tell, the experiment involving dream telepathy and the Christian portrait was pretty scientifically executed. However, in the scientific community, studying these things that have been (IMO) wrongly lumped all into "New Age mumbo-jumbo" at all tends to raise eyebrows and leads to the experimenters being marginalized or denegrated. Maybe if fringe scientists could start getting grants and the like more solid studies will start coming out.

It's a bit sad, really. Sometimes scientists can be just as closed-minded as the competition.


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"You mustn't be afraid to dream a little bigger, darling." - Inception

“Men will never be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest”. - Denis Diderot

Offline Irtaviš Ačankif

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Re: Astral Projection: Gateway to Other Worlds
« Reply #17 on: August 20, 2011, 01:15:36 am »
I meant that the research at lucidity.com is NOT pseudoscience. It is real science and I hope it gets accepted!

I'm not in any way against you. I'm just saying that the research done at DreamViews and the countless self-help books are pseudoscience. I definitely agree that lucidity.com research is not pseudoscience. It isn't even fringe science. AFAIK its research is nearly always accepted by the psychophysiology community.
Previously Ithisa Kīranem, Uniltìrantokx te Skxawng.

Name from my Sakaš conlang, from Sakasul Ältäbisäl Acarankïp

"First name" is Ačankif, not Eltabiš! In Na'vi, Atsankip.

Offline Tsyal Maktoyu

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Re: Astral Projection: Gateway to Other Worlds
« Reply #18 on: August 20, 2011, 01:42:55 am »
Yeah, I was referring to Lucidity.com. But I'm just saying, when scientific study is done to try to prove the existence of OBEs or dream telepathy/shared dreaming, it's always bound to raise a few eyebrows in the scientific community, and the researcher is usually left with an uphill battle to try to get the community to recognize their efforts or write them off as nuts. It's a taboo subject. Research on the other hand that tries to disprove OBEs and such are a lot more easily accepted in the community.

At least, that's the impression I get when I've studied this stuff. It seems like there's definitely a double standard in this field, and I think it's the taboo factor doing that.
« Last Edit: August 20, 2011, 01:44:50 am by Tsyal Maktoyu »


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"You mustn't be afraid to dream a little bigger, darling." - Inception

“Men will never be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest”. - Denis Diderot

Offline Clarke

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Re: Astral Projection: Gateway to Other Worlds
« Reply #19 on: August 20, 2011, 05:53:43 am »

 

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