Author Topic: Biodiversity and the Clan  (Read 2499 times)

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Offline Seze Mune

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Biodiversity and the Clan
« on: April 26, 2012, 09:57:22 am »
I was just reading about the genealogy data bank in Iceland.  Because it is an island with a fairly stable population, everyone there has a good chance of being related to any given prospective mate.  That's gotta be a problem for any tribe, especially one that's relatively isolated...

"...when you live in an isolated nation with a population roughly the size of Pittsburgh, accidentally lusting after a cousin is an all-too-real possibility. But a search engine called Íslendingabók (the Book of Icelanders) allows users to plug in their own name alongside that of a prospective mate, determining any familial overlap. The site claims to track 1,200 years of genealogical information about the island’s inhabitants. Anyone with an Icelandic ID number — that is, citizens and legal residents — is accounted for..."

Read more: Islanders avoid inbreeding through online database

Offline Meuiama Tsamsiyu (Toruk Makto)

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Re: Biodiversity and the Clan
« Reply #1 on: April 26, 2012, 02:47:30 pm »
I was just reading about the genealogy data bank in Iceland.  Because it is an island with a fairly stable population, everyone there has a good chance of being related to any given prospective mate.  That's gotta be a problem for any tribe, especially one that's relatively isolated...

"...when you live in an isolated nation with a population roughly the size of Pittsburgh, accidentally lusting after a cousin is an all-too-real possibility. But a search engine called Íslendingabók (the Book of Icelanders) allows users to plug in their own name alongside that of a prospective mate, determining any familial overlap. The site claims to track 1,200 years of genealogical information about the island’s inhabitants. Anyone with an Icelandic ID number — that is, citizens and legal residents — is accounted for..."

Read more: Islanders avoid inbreeding through online database


And that's less than 350K people for a genetic feeding pool population. Can you imagine the pickings for the Omatikaya? It is a certainty that there would be member trading from other clans to prevent this. Nature prevents inbreeding with migration of species. So Eywa would have those kinds of blocks in place too. Logically.
« Last Edit: July 28, 2012, 06:59:06 am by Meuiama Tsamsiyu (Toruk Makto) »



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Offline Tsmuktengan

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Re: Biodiversity and the Clan
« Reply #2 on: April 26, 2012, 04:49:24 pm »
Interesting, irao ma Seze Mune for underlining this. I think it is necessary, like in any kind of group I have come across, that there is an ongoing process or new people coming, or at least, renewal in some way. And not just when it comes to mates, it is an excellent thing to see new faces.

Still gotta take in charge this website...will advance this now.


Offline Seze Mune

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Re: Biodiversity and the Clan
« Reply #3 on: April 26, 2012, 07:57:52 pm »
I imagine anyone moving to Iceland would not lack for willing partners.

Offline Tsmuktengan

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Re: Biodiversity and the Clan
« Reply #4 on: April 26, 2012, 08:44:45 pm »
I imagine anyone moving to Iceland would not lack for willing partners.

Hum, like mostly anywhere else? I miss your point here.


Offline Seze Mune

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Re: Biodiversity and the Clan
« Reply #5 on: April 26, 2012, 09:11:24 pm »
I imagine anyone moving to Iceland would not lack for willing partners.

Hum, like mostly anywhere else? I miss your point here.

I guess I'm just saying that if one feels unpopular for some reason, just move to Iceland.  That might change one's luck.  ;)

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Re: Biodiversity and the Clan
« Reply #6 on: April 26, 2012, 11:04:06 pm »
Well, I think the 1st 2 generations might be safe, you hit the 3rd generation and things can derail...

Offline Tsmuktengan

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Re: Biodiversity and the Clan
« Reply #7 on: April 27, 2012, 02:34:14 am »
Aha. this is why I talked about renewal. In a general way, I see this as essential.


Offline Ni-awtu

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Re: Biodiversity and the Clan
« Reply #8 on: July 25, 2012, 06:33:34 am »
I love the way you guys are taking this so seriously!

its a pretty insane idea :D

I'm still reeling tbh, like they are starting a TRIBE?!?!!!

woah :O

Offline Nìmwey

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Re: Biodiversity and the Clan
« Reply #9 on: July 25, 2012, 12:50:27 pm »
And that's less than 350K people for a genetic feeding pool population. Can you imagine the pickings for the Omatikaya? It is a certainty that there would be member trading from other clans to prevent this.
Of course, as you say, the Omatikaya would (as our ancestors) certainly intermarry/breed between clans.
They are not that isolated. ;)
But it is true, for an intentional tribe such as this, it would pose a problem. Few more tribes like this are likely to be created (though one can never know what happens to civilisation in the coming generations).
But it is a very long term issue, not something to bother us now I think.

Offline Meuiama Tsamsiyu (Toruk Makto)

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Re: Biodiversity and the Clan
« Reply #10 on: July 28, 2012, 07:04:08 am »
And that's less than 350K people for a genetic feeding pool population. Can you imagine the pickings for the Omatikaya? It is a certainty that there would be member trading from other clans to prevent this.
Of course, as you say, the Omatikaya would (as our ancestors) certainly intermarry/breed between clans.
They are not that isolated. ;)
But it is true, for an intentional tribe such as this, it would pose a problem. Few more tribes like this are likely to be created (though one can never know what happens to civilisation in the coming generations).
But it is a very long term issue, not something to bother us now I think.

In my RP (which is on hiatus) it takes place after the War of the movie and if I remember correctly, the Omatikaya and the helping clans took losses on the order of about 30% or more of their clan size.

So to keep the balance, they would need to brush off, lick their wounds and start breeding again. Logic.

In fact that is what scientists say should happen should the Earth come under attack from a hostile alien force. THAT said...

On the flip side of the coin... when clans get too big I imagine, like early settlers of this country and other tribal networks throughout pre civilized Earth, they would send off satellite clans and groups. Kind of like honeybees. The hive gets too big, the queen leaves with a batch of her workers and makes a new nest.



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Offline Tsmuktengan

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Re: Biodiversity and the Clan
« Reply #11 on: July 30, 2012, 08:03:24 pm »
I think it would be kind of useful to stay opened to new people and help them joining to anyway have enough various people in the group. I am rather thinking about the group's solidity and ability to continue through time rather than 'breeding', even though this can also be taken in account. Remember people would not choose this project to find a playmate but to try a very different and rarely lived lifestyle first.


Offline Seze Mune

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Re: Biodiversity and the Clan
« Reply #12 on: July 31, 2012, 08:01:09 am »
Come to think of it, I think that's how the American Amish and the American German Baptists and Mennonites got started.  The groups are so inbred now that they are having some interesting genetic problems come to light.

Offline Tsmuktengan

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Re: Biodiversity and the Clan
« Reply #13 on: July 31, 2012, 05:25:21 pm »
Come to think of it, I think that's how the American Amish and the American German Baptists and Mennonites got started.  The groups are so inbred now that they are having some interesting genetic problems come to light.

Source?


Offline Seze Mune

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Re: Biodiversity and the Clan
« Reply #14 on: August 01, 2012, 07:51:14 pm »
Come to think of it, I think that's how the American Amish and the American German Baptists and Mennonites got started.  The groups are so inbred now that they are having some interesting genetic problems come to light.

Source?

A couple of 'em: Wikipedia -" Amish church membership begins with baptism, usually between the ages of 16 and 25. It is a requirement for marriage, and once a person has affiliated with the church, he or she may marry only within the faith."

From CBS:  "The genetic problems come down to something called the "founder effect" because the nearly 150,000 Amish in America can trace their roots back to a few hundred German-Swiss settlers who brought the Amish and Mennonite faiths to the United States in the 18th century. Over generations of intermarriage, rare genetic flaws have shown up, flaws which most of us carry within our genetic makeup but which don't show up unless we marry someone else with the same rare genetic markers."

Offline Äteya

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Re: Biodiversity and the Clan
« Reply #15 on: August 04, 2012, 09:00:40 am »
I guess we could keep a log of who's related to who so if there are several new generations we can avoid interbreeding.

Offline Seze Mune

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Re: Biodiversity and the Clan
« Reply #16 on: August 04, 2012, 04:28:44 pm »
That would be most important, especially in the second, third and fourth generations if any.

 

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