Author Topic: Devil's Advocate and All the Bad Stuff.  (Read 11544 times)

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Offline PerianArdocyl

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Re: Devil's Advocate and All the Bad Stuff.
« Reply #120 on: February 21, 2010, 01:38:43 am »
Well, that's good to hear, but please don't think I was underestimating you that time... I was actually countering my own argument about the possibility that you'd actually have even more leisure time (as opposed to less, which was what the OP was suggesting).

Besides, you gotta cut me some slack... this is only the second thread I've checked out since that last one.  :)

Offline Valuk

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Re: Devil's Advocate and All the Bad Stuff.
« Reply #121 on: February 21, 2010, 03:10:29 am »
Ok, so while I was looking around here and saw this I just figured I'd put my .02 in...and I do not claim myself as an expert...

Look, if you guys a dead set on doing this...It will be hard, there is no easy mode, no automatic everything. Surviving in the wilderness takes lots of practice and learning.

Gotta learn your limits, gotta learn other peoples limits, you must be fit, and you MUST have mental toughness...because this, will be more of a willpower and mental strife thing, more than anything else. It takes time, it takes effort...you must be willing to take yourself and regress to a tribal setting...its weird, I can't really describe it right...it's just like, to me, this is kinda stupid if you plan on living like this for the rest of your life or atlest awhile.

I would suggest that this would be only like heck, a half year thing or something, nothing permanant...just to avoid your problems of taxes and crap, just make it like a camp thing, but I'm getting off topic.

Wilderness survival is hard, plain and simple, you must know what to eat and not to eat, what is good for you and not, what is poisonous and what is not, just alot of little things that will make a HUGE difference in your survival. You must learn to take care of yourself using natural 'herbalism' to make ointments and treating of yourself when you get hurt. There is no 'I won't get hurt I will be careful' you WILL get hurt at sometime and unless you know what your doing, you will either need a medivac or you will suffer and at extreme die in the wilderness. Which I hope to never hear of that happening to anyone out there but...its possible.

My list of what you need to know.
-How to start controlled fires.
-How to purify water
-How to Hunt using primitave weapon systems
-How to MAKE weapons and tools from nature
-How to take care of yourself in nature, with nature
-How to clean and dress wildlife of your area
-Know what is good for your body in the wilderness, plants that can be eaten/cooked etc...
-Know how to make temporary and permanant shelter
-Know how to protect yourself against threats, Wild life, plants, and insects (could be considers wild life?)
-Know your body, know what you can and can't do, don't force anything!
-BE FIT...be able to run fast and atlest 2 miles in 14-16 minutes. (Basic Army requirement, its honestly a good peg point for anyone. I can almost do it...and I'm 265lb 6 foot even...and mostly a fat man...about 2 minutes over, but again im getting off topic...)
-Be able to lift heavy objects, you never know when you might have to get a tree log off of someone...or something like that, good bench point would be atlest 150lbs with both arms. (I bench a max of 250, which isn't bad...needs to be more)
-Be able to stalk relatively well in the woods, know how to trail walk. (Not making much noise when walking.)
-Be able to camouflage yourself and your shelter. I can teach camouflaging to anyone that wants.
-Be able to take precautions about elements. It gets cold and it gets hot, it rains and it snows, know what you need to do to survive.

Survival at basic is a mental task that will pull on everything...just nothing to do but to do it. I know it ain't much and you don't have to take my advice as I am 17 and most people don't think I know jack s***. Just heed me, thats all I ask. This will not be easy, and I know most of you know that...
« Last Edit: February 21, 2010, 03:13:20 am by Valuk »
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Offline Pwatem

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Re: Devil's Advocate and All the Bad Stuff.
« Reply #122 on: February 21, 2010, 04:33:09 am »
we could have more than one computer

I think we should base the amount of computers, phones, etc. on the amount of people we accumulate. with the amount of people interested now it seems like 1-3 would be appropriate. I think use can be controlled by moderators, like on this forum ;)


You should first get some books on survuval, and ones that teach you how to do things like the proper way to skin different kinds of animals (this is important.) using brains to tan hides, food preservation, hunting rules, and plant identifications for your area.

And I'm sure you can get people to donate books to you.

Libraries have book sales (usually $1 for paperbacks and $2 for hardbacks) and we could acquire many of the books we feel we need or just for leisure through that. And I agree that people would probably be willing to donate books as well.

Thats exactly what I was thinking Rolyu ;D. When I say nearby that could be a few miles (or less) away, it doesn't have to intefere with the tribal part (that's kinda the point of seperating them as two locations).

exactly what I was thinking! if we were to get a big enough expanse of land those who wanted to live in the "eco-village" could, and those who want to live outside of it, but close by could as well. I feel like the population of the two would most likely be close to evenly distributed, favoring the eco-village slightly.


I think the origanal idea is better but we could have tree groups (perm tribe, summer camp, eco village)

the name summer camp is kind of presented in a negative connotation, I think it should be referred to as 'summer stay' or 'summer vacation'. so it sounds way more fun  ;D
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Offline 'Itan Atxur

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Re: Devil's Advocate and All the Bad Stuff.
« Reply #123 on: February 21, 2010, 08:57:08 am »
Well, that's good to hear, but please don't think I was underestimating you that time... I was actually countering my own argument about the possibility that you'd actually have even more leisure time (as opposed to less, which was what the OP was suggesting).

Besides, you gotta cut me some slack... this is only the second thread I've checked out since that last one.  :)

Lol. Don't worry about it! There's an overwhelming amount to read so we're bound to end up with many people bringing up past topics. Some times I just don't react the way I should (which isn't to say that I think I reacted poorly, just not as well as I could have). :D

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Offline Letxuma Swizaw

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Re: Devil's Advocate and All the Bad Stuff.
« Reply #124 on: February 21, 2010, 09:09:24 am »
Ok, so while I was looking around here and saw this I just figured I'd put my .02 in...and I do not claim myself as an expert...

Look, if you guys a dead set on doing this...It will be hard, there is no easy mode, no automatic everything. Surviving in the wilderness takes lots of practice and learning.

Gotta learn your limits, gotta learn other peoples limits, you must be fit, and you MUST have mental toughness...because this, will be more of a willpower and mental strife thing, more than anything else. It takes time, it takes effort...you must be willing to take yourself and regress to a tribal setting...its weird, I can't really describe it right...it's just like, to me, this is kinda stupid if you plan on living like this for the rest of your life or atlest awhile.

I would suggest that this would be only like heck, a half year thing or something, nothing permanant...just to avoid your problems of taxes and crap, just make it like a camp thing, but I'm getting off topic.

Wilderness survival is hard, plain and simple, you must know what to eat and not to eat, what is good for you and not, what is poisonous and what is not, just alot of little things that will make a HUGE difference in your survival. You must learn to take care of yourself using natural 'herbalism' to make ointments and treating of yourself when you get hurt. There is no 'I won't get hurt I will be careful' you WILL get hurt at sometime and unless you know what your doing, you will either need a medivac or you will suffer and at extreme die in the wilderness. Which I hope to never hear of that happening to anyone out there but...its possible.

My list of what you need to know.
-How to start controlled fires.
-How to purify water
-How to Hunt using primitave weapon systems
-How to MAKE weapons and tools from nature
-How to take care of yourself in nature, with nature
-How to clean and dress wildlife of your area
-Know what is good for your body in the wilderness, plants that can be eaten/cooked etc...
-Know how to make temporary and permanant shelter
-Know how to protect yourself against threats, Wild life, plants, and insects (could be considers wild life?)
-Know your body, know what you can and can't do, don't force anything!
-BE FIT...be able to run fast and atlest 2 miles in 14-16 minutes. (Basic Army requirement, its honestly a good peg point for anyone. I can almost do it...and I'm 265lb 6 foot even...and mostly a fat man...about 2 minutes over, but again im getting off topic...)
-Be able to lift heavy objects, you never know when you might have to get a tree log off of someone...or something like that, good bench point would be atlest 150lbs with both arms. (I bench a max of 250, which isn't bad...needs to be more)
-Be able to stalk relatively well in the woods, know how to trail walk. (Not making much noise when walking.)
-Be able to camouflage yourself and your shelter. I can teach camouflaging to anyone that wants.
-Be able to take precautions about elements. It gets cold and it gets hot, it rains and it snows, know what you need to do to survive.

Survival at basic is a mental task that will pull on everything...just nothing to do but to do it. I know it ain't much and you don't have to take my advice as I am 17 and most people don't think I know jack s***. Just heed me, thats all I ask. This will not be easy, and I know most of you know that...

I'm starting to think we should put a list of things we have already discussed in the read first thread because these posts are getting a little tiring. ::) And i also don't expect every new person here to go through all the previous threads that would be asking waaaayy too much.
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Offline 'Itan Atxur

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Re: Devil's Advocate and All the Bad Stuff.
« Reply #125 on: February 21, 2010, 09:10:18 am »
Well thats what I started the "outline" thread for but its locked :(

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Offline Coyote

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Re: Devil's Advocate and All the Bad Stuff.
« Reply #126 on: February 21, 2010, 11:35:07 am »
Well, admittedly this particular thread is the "Devils Advocate and All the Bad Stuff" thread, so this is kinda where all the cold water is supposed to be splashed.  ;)
In Libertarianism, there is no Government, so the Bosses are free to exploit the Workers.
In Communism, there is no Government, so the Workers are free to exploit the Bosses.
So in Libertarianism, man exploits man, but in Communism, its the other way around!


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Offline 'Itan Atxur

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Re: Devil's Advocate and All the Bad Stuff.
« Reply #127 on: February 21, 2010, 11:37:51 am »
Exactly. But the solutions should find their way into the outline.

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Offline Letxuma Swizaw

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Re: Devil's Advocate and All the Bad Stuff.
« Reply #128 on: February 21, 2010, 01:33:34 pm »
Also it seems like every new person that comes here thinks we're retarded and don't know the risks and efforts this will require. Rolyu's post here however did bring to light somethings that i would have just thought would have been the first thoughts of anyone here. But clearly some of us didn't truly know what the wild is all about. So i guess it's better to assume ignorance and be safe than assume intelligence/sound-thought and have a bunch of people get hurt.
Oe Skxawnghu längu.

Kìrìstìyä tìpe'unri a kifkeyit kelor kawngsì tsere'a, tsafpìlfya kifkeyit tsafya txolängula.

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Offline 'Itan Atxur

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Re: Devil's Advocate and All the Bad Stuff.
« Reply #129 on: February 21, 2010, 04:20:52 pm »
That's actually a pretty good point.

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Offline Coyote

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Re: Devil's Advocate and All the Bad Stuff.
« Reply #130 on: February 21, 2010, 04:24:22 pm »
I'll say in my case the skepticism is not borne from the idea that this, that, or anyone is "retarded"-- more like questions about how truly feasible and sustainable the project really is. I am sympathetic, even if I do question whether it could be done.
In Libertarianism, there is no Government, so the Bosses are free to exploit the Workers.
In Communism, there is no Government, so the Workers are free to exploit the Bosses.
So in Libertarianism, man exploits man, but in Communism, its the other way around!


VIDEO LOG DAY 8:
Attempted to pee on Viperwolf to test reaction. Please see attached medical file.
WARNING: Attached medical file exceeds gigabyte limit. System failure.

Offline Letxuma Swizaw

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Re: Devil's Advocate and All the Bad Stuff.
« Reply #131 on: February 21, 2010, 04:27:36 pm »
IMO, it has been done in northern Michigan where the winters are unforgiving, it can be done elsewhere.
Oe Skxawnghu längu.

Kìrìstìyä tìpe'unri a kifkeyit kelor kawngsì tsere'a, tsafpìlfya kifkeyit tsafya txolängula.

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Offline PerianArdocyl

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Re: Devil's Advocate and All the Bad Stuff.
« Reply #132 on: February 21, 2010, 04:36:07 pm »
It would be a heck of a lot easier to go along with this if I didn't have to give the idea up a few months ago... I was hell-bent, nothing could stop me, not even 'death by seizure'. And then this comes along, and suddenly, it all seems possible again. Not to get all emotional, but it was hard enough giving it up the first time. So yeah, I'm gonna be a bit skeptical before I thrust my hopes and dreams into something like this again.

Offline Letxuma Swizaw

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Re: Devil's Advocate and All the Bad Stuff.
« Reply #133 on: February 21, 2010, 04:38:48 pm »
i have had dreams crushed enough already to know that the only way to up the success rate is full immersion. Sure, if it fails it hurts a lot more, but it tends to pay off more in the end.

Yeah i know I'm only 17 but i consider myself an old soul. :D
Oe Skxawnghu längu.

Kìrìstìyä tìpe'unri a kifkeyit kelor kawngsì tsere'a, tsafpìlfya kifkeyit tsafya txolängula.

Join our real life tribe! here(And yes, it will be a real tribe in the real world, not a role play tribe)

Offline Valuk

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Re: Devil's Advocate and All the Bad Stuff.
« Reply #134 on: February 21, 2010, 08:08:21 pm »
*Throws hands up* Hey I was just trying to help, I'm not calling anyone of you retarded for doing this I'm just saying from my perspective it is. There is a reason why humans bettered themselves to the state we are in now. Why go back? I can see the whole summer time thing, thats cool whatever. But living like that permanently or atlest prolonged...to me, not such a good Idea.

I just thought I would add my .02 to not try to persuade you from not doing it, just to help you.

That was my one and only intention. Viel Glueck (Good Luck)
Hell, I'm new don't murder me!
When I get fit, I'll be a warrior. Well, skinnier lets go with that.
Your Na'vi Man at Arms and Protector of the weak: Valuk.

guest2859

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Re: Devil's Advocate and All the Bad Stuff.
« Reply #135 on: February 21, 2010, 08:21:43 pm »
Ok, so while I was looking around here and saw this I just figured I'd put my .02 in...and I do not claim myself as an expert...

Look, if you guys a dead set on doing this...It will be hard, there is no easy mode, no automatic everything. Surviving in the wilderness takes lots of practice and learning.

Gotta learn your limits, gotta learn other peoples limits, you must be fit, and you MUST have mental toughness...because this, will be more of a willpower and mental strife thing, more than anything else. It takes time, it takes effort...you must be willing to take yourself and regress to a tribal setting...its weird, I can't really describe it right...it's just like, to me, this is kinda stupid if you plan on living like this for the rest of your life or atlest awhile.

I would suggest that this would be only like heck, a half year thing or something, nothing permanant...just to avoid your problems of taxes and crap, just make it like a camp thing, but I'm getting off topic.

Wilderness survival is hard, plain and simple, you must know what to eat and not to eat, what is good for you and not, what is poisonous and what is not, just alot of little things that will make a HUGE difference in your survival. You must learn to take care of yourself using natural 'herbalism' to make ointments and treating of yourself when you get hurt. There is no 'I won't get hurt I will be careful' you WILL get hurt at sometime and unless you know what your doing, you will either need a medivac or you will suffer and at extreme die in the wilderness. Which I hope to never hear of that happening to anyone out there but...its possible.

My list of what you need to know.
-How to start controlled fires.
-How to purify water
-How to Hunt using primitave weapon systems
-How to MAKE weapons and tools from nature
-How to take care of yourself in nature, with nature
-How to clean and dress wildlife of your area
-Know what is good for your body in the wilderness, plants that can be eaten/cooked etc...
-Know how to make temporary and permanant shelter
-Know how to protect yourself against threats, Wild life, plants, and insects (could be considers wild life?)
-Know your body, know what you can and can't do, don't force anything!
-BE FIT...be able to run fast and atlest 2 miles in 14-16 minutes. (Basic Army requirement, its honestly a good peg point for anyone. I can almost do it...and I'm 265lb 6 foot even...and mostly a fat man...about 2 minutes over, but again im getting off topic...)
-Be able to lift heavy objects, you never know when you might have to get a tree log off of someone...or something like that, good bench point would be atlest 150lbs with both arms. (I bench a max of 250, which isn't bad...needs to be more)
-Be able to stalk relatively well in the woods, know how to trail walk. (Not making much noise when walking.)
-Be able to camouflage yourself and your shelter. I can teach camouflaging to anyone that wants.
-Be able to take precautions about elements. It gets cold and it gets hot, it rains and it snows, know what you need to do to survive.

Survival at basic is a mental task that will pull on everything...just nothing to do but to do it. I know it ain't much and you don't have to take my advice as I am 17 and most people don't think I know jack s***. Just heed me, thats all I ask. This will not be easy, and I know most of you know that...

I like that. +1 Karma

Thought I need to start. I'm working on soccer right now, plan to stay a year, then take ease on my senior year for my fitness routine. Plus if I started running now, I could make half a mile before I needed to stop. Thought I need to start.

But what happens if we plan, it goes well, then our plans for the tribe crashes and we lose our money and all our work?

Offline Rain

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Re: Devil's Advocate and All the Bad Stuff.
« Reply #136 on: February 21, 2010, 08:32:17 pm »
Hopefully we don't pour all of our time and effort into this and be left up a metaphorical moving aquifer of human waste in a Native American watercraft and lacking means of propulsion. I think that even if you're serious about this, you should at least have a fallback plan in case the absolute worst happens. If you're in college, stay there. If you're not, apply. In this day and age, it's best not only to have a Plan B and Plan C, but all the way to Plan V.

Toruk Txonä, you bring up a lot of good ideas. If anyone is dead serious, they should take a survival course. Logic tells me that with a little education and experience (okay maybe more than a little), the chances of this tribe actually surviving will go up.
"If there are self-made purgatories, then we shall all have to live in them."
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Offline The old Uriuujìn

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Re: Devil's Advocate and All the Bad Stuff.
« Reply #137 on: February 21, 2010, 08:49:17 pm »
XD That is one of the funniest things that I have ever seen!

But I am in agreement, make sure to have a few backup plans in reserve, especially with the world as it is now. Still keep up hope, though. Just because you have backups doesn't mean that this is going to fail! ^_^ Stay strong!

Gaia ayngahu

-Uriuujìn

Offline Rain

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Re: Devil's Advocate and All the Bad Stuff.
« Reply #138 on: February 21, 2010, 08:53:08 pm »
Thanks, Uriuujìn! My backup plan is to be an English prof. :-\ Meh, it'll feed me
"If there are self-made purgatories, then we shall all have to live in them."
-Spock, "This Side of Paradise"

"The greatest danger about Pandora is that you may come to love it too much." ~Grace Augustine

guest2859

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Re: Devil's Advocate and All the Bad Stuff.
« Reply #139 on: February 21, 2010, 08:58:58 pm »
I'll keep up on my current plan. If this fails, I be sure before hand I'll have a college application filled out and hidden back at home.

 

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