Author Topic: Devil's Advocate and All the Bad Stuff.  (Read 11543 times)

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Offline 'Itan Atxur

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Re: Devil's Advocate and All the Bad Stuff.
« Reply #20 on: February 17, 2010, 11:45:14 am »
Nothing wrong with that! :D

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Offline bagget00

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Re: Devil's Advocate and All the Bad Stuff.
« Reply #21 on: February 17, 2010, 12:27:22 pm »
Heres a question to you Rolyu. Would you be joining us out there? Having someone with your experience would be great, but to me it sounds like you are posting that you don't want to go through that again.
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Offline Txon Taronyu

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Re: Devil's Advocate and All the Bad Stuff.
« Reply #22 on: February 17, 2010, 02:30:17 pm »
If we can keep the camp clean and live near a lake we can swim every day so we wont be dirty and the risk of sickness will go down
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Offline Rolyu

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Re: Devil's Advocate and All the Bad Stuff.
« Reply #23 on: February 17, 2010, 06:10:00 pm »
I would definitely not be a part of the permanent tribe, but visiting and helping out and perhaps recording tribal life is definitely a possibility. 

Yes, at this stage in my young life, I love being warm and clean and comfortable.  I love the city, I love my technology, and every single day I wake up I am grateful that I can stick my dishes in a dishwasher, instead of doing them by hand; I can flip on a light switch instead of lighting a lantern; I can turn up the thermostat instead of spending two hours getting together kindling, wood, and paper, building a fire, and coaxing it to a nice blaze, then waiting another five hours for the house to be warm; I don't have to trek a half mile away from the house in any and all weather, twice a day, to tend the livestock we raise for food;  I have high speed internet that allows me to gather information quickly, play games, telecommute, and be a part of this wonderful forum, I am glad that in the springtime, I can walk on a concrete sidewalk instead of slopping through 6 or more inches of mud and manure that ruins my shoes; I can longboard in the parking lot behind Walmart; I have access to as much food as I can eat, any kind of food, any time of the day; I can take a hot shower whenever; my toilet flushes; I live an easy enough life that I can have pets, such as my kitty Steve and my fish Moby; my basic needs are so taken care of, that I have spare time to perfect my art and my hobbies- I can paint, play guitar, Na'vi your faces in photoshop, longboard, and attend college to expand my mind and my knowledge.
Back when I was taking care of my younger siblings, making dinner every night, cleaning up after everyone, and taking care of farm chores, (on top of school) I didn't even have enough time to do my homework, let alone be involved in a club or sports.

Anyway, this is just my experience, and I'm sure that since I was forced to live in that way, and was isolated from my friends and the rest of my family (creating no sense of community) I have a very strong revulsion to living that way again.  For now.  Who knows what joyous possibilities wait for those who chose that lifestyle and build a close-knit community where everyone helps out.

I can use that to help you guys though, by pointing out potential problems, and helping find ways to solve them before they happen.

Good luck finding an empty lake to camp near that isn't owned either privately or by the government and is also in an area that is habitable.  Remember that you can't just find an empty spot of land and claim it.  If it's national forest (which encompasses all of the ideal living areas that are free from civilization) a tribe of your size would be found and expelled very quickly. You would all face criminal charges.  Same thing on privately owned land.  Every patch of dirt in this country is owned by someone.  If you go to another country, you will eventually be found and deported (unless you become citizens of that country, then you have a better chance.)  Canada is nice and remote....  ::)  But I think most of that is National Forest as well.
Not to mention, lakes that are warm enough for you to swim in are warm enough to have parasites like leeches, mites, and the little nasties that cause swimmer's itch.  Lakes with good sized populations of birds are breeding grounds for intestinal parasites and E.coli bacteria
To really become clean you will need to scrub the most important parts of your body in boiled water.  Your hands, face, and genitals, specifically.

So, what steps are you guys taking to make this legal?
If we can keep the camp clean and live near a lake we can swim every day so we wont be dirty and the risk of sickness will go down

Of course, it all comes with its price.  However, I have spent my entire life dreaming of living in the city, and having a comfortable enough life 

Offline Letxuma Swizaw

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Re: Devil's Advocate and All the Bad Stuff.
« Reply #24 on: February 17, 2010, 07:31:12 pm »
<off topic> you can photoshop me into an avatar?!?!? Can you do it to me please i tried to do it while teaching my self and it looks deplorable. at least give me some pointers!!!</off topic>

Its a shame that nature has been soiled for you. I can't wait to stop being pampered by modern conveniences. The joy i had living in the woods for just a week, i can't wait to expand that to my whole life. I know you'll probably think i'm naive and that i really don't know what i'm getting into but i never go into anything blindly, i know what's waiting for me out there and i can't wait.
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Re: Devil's Advocate and All the Bad Stuff.
« Reply #25 on: February 17, 2010, 08:37:46 pm »

Sometimes the end is not the end, but instead the beginning. Though yours [Rolyu] was a part of your pastlife, you can still live out the good part of nature.

Offline Ikranä mokri

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Re: Devil's Advocate and All the Bad Stuff.
« Reply #26 on: February 18, 2010, 08:57:00 am »
ill let you in on a secret

well i doubt its a secret more of somethign i found cool on my 2 week vacation...

if you wanna get clean quick, go out in teh rain and use it(the rain) to shower, its cold and you probaby would wanna wear some sort of clothign to hide your modesty (i didnt cause i was alone) but it really works it the down por is big enough. even just a short shower (i made a funny) it can be very cleansing and refreshing

and this would be a really tight knit community (hopefully) where we would all help each other to survive. for example if someone was having trouble making a bow or hunting or something i would hop that they could ask anyone in the tribe and get some help even if the person helping was just as bad it adds a feeling of happines to a situation becuase you can laugh at yourself and the other person ( thats just how i feel)
« Last Edit: February 18, 2010, 09:01:00 am by Twonyu Ikranä »





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Offline hemmond

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Re: Devil's Advocate and All the Bad Stuff.
« Reply #27 on: February 18, 2010, 09:48:42 am »
You said omething about showers, but seven months ago, I tested indian sauna and it's good thing for cleaning. And maybe some lake nearby can be usefull as well. :)

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Offline Coyote

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Re: Devil's Advocate and All the Bad Stuff.
« Reply #28 on: February 18, 2010, 01:13:51 pm »
Thank you, Rolyu. You out in one thread all the stuff I tried bringing up in multiple other threads. Unfortunately, it sometimes seemed like all I was trying to do was pee in everyone's Cheerios, when such was not my intent-- although a dose of reality-check was my goal.

There are a lot of things to consider in this. If a young couple does hook up and have a kid --which is only natural-- then days of hard toil to barely feed a child will make things very "un-fun" very quickly. Either the mother or father will break and retreat with their kid to the nearest town, or concerned relatives will stage an "intervention".

Bear in mind that to the outside world, no matter how pure our intentions, we'd be seen as a bunch of people who live in a "compound" because of our "beliefs". What usually happens to people that are portrayed that way in the media? If you're lucky, you get written off as kooks. If you're not lucky, the phrase "tense standoff with ATF agents" becomes the tagline most associated with you.

There needs to be a focus on a final goal. Living like a true tribe, living off the land in trees, is hard work and in this day and age, very impractical and in many ways, against the law. There's no law against "living off the land" per se, but there are laws against vagrancy, trespassing, and poaching, all of which will be faced at some point.

And face it, there is a reason why human beings worked hard to develop past this stage: it sucked. Life expectancy topped out in your 40's, you were cold and miserable or hot and miserable, ridden with insects and your body broke down early and you became weatherbeatan and toothless-- quite unattractive --long before. We hurried past that so we could get to refrigerators, vaccines, and central heating.

Would it be better/more realistic to set up an environmentally sensitive & responsible eco-village, heavily influenced with a Na'vi theme, so that things like schools, libraries, and doctors can be had? The "camp-out" idea is cool for, say, summers... maybe have a months-long retreat site for extended wild living each year? But the main focus would be the village, which would have a smuch geothermal/solar/wind power a spossible, and maybe a only limited number of certain types of cars for public use would be allowed?

« Last Edit: February 18, 2010, 01:59:49 pm by Coyote »
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Offline Rolyu

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Re: Devil's Advocate and All the Bad Stuff.
« Reply #29 on: February 18, 2010, 02:38:45 pm »
Ooh.  I like your village idea.  That would be really cool.  Be a super-super eco-friendly mini society with the Na'vi way of life close to your heart.

It sounds so.... sustainable.

Hahaha I could even think about living in a place like that.

Offline Txon Taronyu

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Re: Devil's Advocate and All the Bad Stuff.
« Reply #30 on: February 18, 2010, 02:42:55 pm »
well it does sound nice but one of the resons why people died at such a young age back then was not the harsh living but more their ignorance to certin things and also since we lived in a modern society at a young age we would most likely live actualy longer than most people in the city as long as we keep our hygien up and eat right
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Offline Txontaw

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Re: Devil's Advocate and All the Bad Stuff.
« Reply #31 on: February 18, 2010, 02:45:38 pm »
Good points, Coyote, and we'll see if it comes to that. The idea of an eco-village would be pretty cool, and we should definitely look into it.
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Offline 'Itan Atxur

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Re: Devil's Advocate and All the Bad Stuff.
« Reply #32 on: February 18, 2010, 02:47:04 pm »
Perhaps a cross between what we've been discussing and an eco-villiage.

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Offline Txon Taronyu

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Re: Devil's Advocate and All the Bad Stuff.
« Reply #33 on: February 18, 2010, 02:47:42 pm »
I think the origanal idea is better but we could have tree groups (perm tribe, summer camp, eco village)
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Offline 'Itan Atxur

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Re: Devil's Advocate and All the Bad Stuff.
« Reply #34 on: February 18, 2010, 02:48:46 pm »
Just something to talk about is all. The original idea is more appealing but the eco-villiage is more practical and more likely to happen.

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Offline Txontaw

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Re: Devil's Advocate and All the Bad Stuff.
« Reply #35 on: February 18, 2010, 02:51:06 pm »
Just something to talk about is all. The original idea is more appealing but the eco-villiage is more practical and more likely to happen.

And, we can tone it up and down how we please as to how much of a tribe community we are. And we could still hunt for a lot of our food.
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Offline Txontaw

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Re: Devil's Advocate and All the Bad Stuff.
« Reply #36 on: February 18, 2010, 02:52:28 pm »
Also, an eco-village could support a lot more people.
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Offline Rolyu

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Re: Devil's Advocate and All the Bad Stuff.
« Reply #37 on: February 18, 2010, 02:52:38 pm »
@Txon Taronyu

Just so you know, working hard, being out-doors, and undergoing physical and mental stress ages you.  You can not mature without pain and suffering.  People who never endure true suffering during their childhood or adolescence have a very long childhood, and they will appear and act younger than there years.

You only have to look at my hands.  They don't look like they belong to a 19 year old girl.  They ares scarred, thick knuckled, and very wrinkly.

Living the kind of primitive tribal life you are speaking of may not kill you at forty, but it will age you quickly.

Look at your parents (or your gradparents) high school year books.  Look at the senior photos.  They look like adults. (they look even older in school in rural communities.  Those guys worked HARD.)  Back then being 18 was being an adult.

Look at your yearbook's senior pictures.  These kids look like kids, for the most part.  It's something I have found very fascinating.

You will get old before your time, living a primitive lifestyle.
well it does sound nice but one of the resons why people died at such a young age back then was not the harsh living but more their ignorance to certin things and also since we lived in a modern society at a young age we would most likely live actualy longer than most people in the city as long as we keep our hygien up and eat right

Offline Fnua Atxkxe

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Re: Devil's Advocate and All the Bad Stuff.
« Reply #38 on: February 18, 2010, 03:04:15 pm »
I personally find the idea of the village to be a lot more practical. Sure I love the idea of going out and living rough but, let's face it, we've all been brought up with a hell of a lot of conveniences that make our day to day lifes so much easier. I like the idea of going out of the village for a month/s during the year and really living rough but I (personally) could see many people getting tired of such a basic lifestyle with convenieces like showers which could put off potentially a lot of good people. I myself have't decided whether or not I could completely switch to this kind of lifestyle, I'm not saying I couldn't or that I don't find the idea appealing, just that realistically how long could I maintain that lifestyle before missing modern society (again i'm not saying modern society is perfect but it is easy in some respects). Hence why I couldn't say I'm 100% commited to a permanent tribe idea. Maybe but hmmm... much to think about the practicalities
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Offline Rolyu

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Re: Devil's Advocate and All the Bad Stuff.
« Reply #39 on: February 18, 2010, 03:06:13 pm »
I just love the idea of a completely self sufficient village though.  Omg.  :D

But yeah, having a summer tribal living area, or some such sort, would be a good experience.  I think that living out years of just that lifestyle will take its toll on people.
 A village is also safer if babies happen.  Then you have a safe place to keep them, gardens, and there is nothing wrong with good home-schooling, if you know what you're doing.  Hunting and fishing parties could still happen, camp outs, foraging, all that stuff.

EDIT:
Living in a village like that is rough compared to what you're probably used to.  Don't worry.  You will still be working hard all day to feed and cloth yourself.  You'd just have a little bit more time to enjoy your life and surroundings, instead of battling them 24/7
« Last Edit: February 18, 2010, 03:10:07 pm by Rolyu »

 

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