I think we need a "Neytiri equivalent"

[Nantxe'lan]

Or to be more precise: some kind of teacher who shows us how to live in harmony with nature.
(Beware: I'm in a "Devil's Advocate mood" again )

i know all of us are animated by the best intentions and i guess it should be clear that there is much to learn. but the very fact that everyone here uses internet is an indicator that we are (at least to some degree) still "spoilt by civilisation".
please don't take this as an offense, i'll exaggerate a bit. but most of us are "technology spolit city dwellers" in the worst case. some are "survival proved tree huggers" in the best case. and of course some people which float around somewhere between those two categories.
though we have one thing in common: we all want to live in touch with nature.
but be honest: who of you exactly KNOWS how?
i know i don't. and to be honest, i doub't you do.
books, science and training can teach us how to survive, how to utilize our surroundings.
our own conscience tells us how to treat nature right, but is still limited to our own knowledge. the "white man's" or "civilised" knowledge. a knowledge of cultures who don't know anymore how to live in touch with nature.
but how can we learn "to See"?

from my POV best we can get "here" are either scientists / anthropologists who used to live with indigenous people, but came to them with an "allready filled cup" (as Mo'at likes to express it) or new age / esotheric / druidic / gaia / etc. fellows.
both have quite usefull insights and oppinions and of course we CAN learn much from them.
but as i allready stated: all of them come from an culture which doesn't know how to live in harmony with nature anymore. the best they have to offer is an scientiffic POV or a believe based on ancient or new dogmata.

Brazil and Australia as a location for the tribe would offer us the possibility to establish contact to the indigenous people of that area, to learn (or rather "learn to understand") their ways.
Australias aborigines would be easy to contact since (afaik) they all speak english. but since they live close to the "civilisation" it might be hard to find some aborigines who still "truly believe".
whereas brazils indigenous tribes are less "spoiled" by civilisation but there might be a language barrier, even if we learn portugese.

another concern is the "tight knit community" and the trust it will be built on.
although this is most likely something we cannot "learn", i think it will be a bit of a problem. i guess noone here really has experience with such "tight knit" communities, since it is uncommon to us and our culture to put that much implicit trust in such a rather big group of people.

so what do you think? am i just a confirmed pessimist? or do you agree with me (at least to some degree)?
Do you have any suggestions/ideas?
let me know

Edit: I don't know if this section matches the topic. Mods, please move it if you think there is a better section

[Fnua Atxkxe]

I completely agree with what you're saying but unless you know of someone like this then the point is moot ;P We just have to make the most of what we have.

[Tonbogiri]

One of the best things to do would be to make sure that everyone takes some sort of course in wilderness living skills. The absolute best is the Anake Outdoor school, a nine-month course which will certainly give you the tools you need. I am already on several courses run by the same company, including a six-weeker which I aim to take this summer.

Certainly, once we reach our location, then the support of an indigenous tribe would be fantastic - who better to teach us?

One thing I try to look for in training courses are not just the "survival" ones. These courses are not designed for someone to spend long periods of time away from society. The best ones are run by schools devoted to nature philosophy - the closest thing I think we will have to being able "to see".

Seriously, get out there.


EDIT: One thing I noticed in other threads was that some people (understandably) do not have the time for courses. For this, I hereby present the Kamana program - a home study course that is the next best thing to a direct course. http://www.wildernessawareness.org/home_study/kamana.html

[Key'ìl Nekxetse]

Wow, that looks interesting! I might need to look into that.

[Teyl Maktoyu Ayfìwopxä]

Shouldnt we get our location set up first? =p as a matter of fact, we've already been busy with this for months and we still don't have a spot to go to.

It's very nice to get hope up by posting these things, but I think we should slowly get to the point again,
we're posting about buildings and stuff, but let's first get a location for us to go?
If we have a location, then we'll see what kind of building(material)s we'll need, etc...

[Tonbogiri]

The man is right.

I believe the first step is to find a way to enter and stay in a country based on immigration law. This is proving to be our biggest obstacle so far (apart from cost, of course) so SOMEONE HELP ME! I can't find any ways in anywhere...

[Txonari]

I agree that in general we are all "spoilt by civilization", but I don't think the tribe's focus is on abandoning everything that humanity has created. From what I understand, we still plan on having technology, and medicine. And honestly, completely giving up human innovations would be pointless.

I don't think we want to live life saying "We completely reject any and all things designed by modern civilization thus far." What we need to find it a way to live in harmony with nature and still factor in all the things that have been developed, or else we really wouldn't be any better than the people who hate all science because some of it is contradictory to their religion. (No religious insults intended. )

[Redpaintednavi]

When it concerns Indigenous peoples in Brasil it is perhaps possible to come in contact with some of them through anthropologists or NGO organisations that have contact with them. Some organisations like Socioambiental and others are working in close cooperation with some native groups. Perhaps you could contact such an organisation and ask for advice.

http://www.socioambiental.org/e/inst/index.shtm

Here is another group that organizes indigenous filmmaking and cultural information:

http://www.videonasaldeias.org.br/2009/index.php?

Here is a group that supports tribal people around the world:

http://www.survivalinternational.org/

Here is a person that have left the US and now live in a tribal group in Panama:

http://www.emberavillagetours.com/About__Anne.html

[Nantxe'lan]

Redpaintednavi, that is exacly what i was trying to say.
especially someone like Anne Gordon and her husband would be a huge help. a person who lives in such a culture to teach us and a person who moved to this culture and knows how to "translate" it for us.

i know that there are other topics with higher priority ATM, but i just wanted to point out that we still have much to learn.
all i wanted to say was that IMO we can learn how to live with nature, but that it will be unlikely that we'll learn how to live as a part of nature without help.

And Txonari, i think you got me wrong. i didn't want to blame technology, i just think that technology is one of the reasons why we can't learn to live in such a way on our own.

all i wanted to say is: I think we will (someday) need a teacher

[Txonari]

And Txonari, i think you got me wrong. i didn't want to blame technology, i just think that technology is one of the reasons why we can't learn to live in such a way on our own.

all i wanted to say is: I think we will (someday) need a teacher

Ah, I'm sorry. I misunderstood by focusing too much on "spoilt by civilization". For some reason I took that to mean "we should avoid anything created by civilization." I'm sorry, it's been a long morning...

[Fnua Atxkxe]

Maybe at some point a representative could email Anne Gordon and see if she has any insights into the adaptations we would have to make to achieve a life like hers, I'm sure her information could be very helpful  The site does giver her email which is useful.

[Predict]

Everyone is capable of acquiring basic survival skills on local courses and similar. Although the situation in which we could learn from an existing group would be ideal it is pretty unlikely. I think it's better to see this as a progression 'back to nature' as opposed to something immediate.

Our skill set will be limited (no one could be 'fully prepared') and this will necessitate a gradual approach. I think we will have to be prepared to be very reliant on the outside world at the beginning, becoming less so as we develop.