Poll

Pull the plug?

Yes
0 (0%)
No
0 (0%)
All but 1 board
1 (100%)

Total Members Voted: 1

Voting closed: December 31, 2013, 01:57:11 pm

Author Topic: Pull the Plug?  (Read 8243 times)

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guest2859

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Pull the Plug?
« on: November 26, 2013, 12:56:20 pm »
Well, this has been down for x amount of months now, with little progress now. I think it's safe to assume that this has met it's downfall, unless there's still some group that still would hold this out as an option. As far as I would say, I think a majority of the Tribe section (if not all) could be locked/archived, unless there's any objection to so, or an objection to keep atleast one board open. This will be left open for some time to accommodate the slow posting of this section.

Edit: Poll added

Offline archaic

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Re: Pull the Plug?
« Reply #1 on: November 26, 2013, 12:58:59 pm »
This is sad, very sad, only.

 :'( :'(
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Kyrenka

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Re: Pull the Plug?
« Reply #2 on: November 26, 2013, 01:18:45 pm »
I've not been in here much but I have lurked for some time. To be honest (and I don't want to sound harsh) this always looked like a hopeless dream due to the circumstances of our current world.

Of course it would of been a nice thing to happen but I highly doubt this would become true... kind of like dreaming the impossible dream fellows.

That said I'd pull the plug ;)

Offline Niri Te

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Re: Pull the Plug?
« Reply #3 on: November 26, 2013, 02:36:28 pm »
 Singularly, or in a very small group, you can pull this off, AS LONG AS, a bunch of "IFS" can be satisfied.
FIRST, someone in the group has to have the liquid money to BUY the land.
SECOND, someone in the group HAS to be on some sort of Government Pension that will follow them antwhere in the World so that you guys have a source of money for day to day expenses.
THIRD, someone in the group HAS to know how to build a house, including how to log the timber, and then finish it into USEABLE lumber to build the house.
FOURTH, Someone in the group HAS to know HOW to put meat on the table by Hunting and Fishing, or you guys will starve.

IF you can satisfy ALL those problems, then you WILL make it. If you can NOT, it is doomed to heartbreaking failure.
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Offline Raiden

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Re: Pull the Plug?
« Reply #4 on: February 08, 2014, 02:48:17 am »
And what about knowing enough about the "lay of the land", which plants are edible, how to deal with diseases, and how to avoid parasites?

Do you know how to correctly identify venomous snakes and arachnids? How about poisonous plants?

Have you calculated how many acres of land of a given type of ecosystem are necessary to sustain a small group of humans? Are you aware that you would need to eat mostly fruits and vegetables, or risk damaging the ecosystem from over-hunting (actually, if you did this on an island, you could kill or badly damage the ecosystem of the island within a few years).

Did you calculate what percentage of "empty" land that could be lived in by humans is actually available for sale? How about winters? Did you consider that you probably won't get to live in a tropical forest somewhere, and may have to deal with extreme cold?

None of these questions were answered. None of them.

Without answers to these questions, you all would all die, and the location you picked would be in such terrible shape ecologically by the time you were dead that it would be better off being burned.

If you were living in a forest, you wouldn't be eating meat all the time. If you killed things often enough that ten people could eat meat for the bulk of their daily food intake, you would crash the local ecosystem. If you add to that the amount of wood needed to make fires, you would probably end up cutting down the entire forest just to make dinner.

If you lived in a forest, and had an ecologically sustainable diet, it would mostly be fruits, edible plants, mushrooms, and insects. If you lived near a river, stream, or lake, you could eat fish too. The fruit would be seasonal, though; even fruit trees in tropical places often bear fruit seasonally (the tropics have no winter, but they often have wet and dry seasons). Bearing fruit is how angiosperm plants reproduce, and reproducing all the time would drain all of their resources until they withered and died.

So if you were located near a body of water with edible fish in it, you would have fish, veggies, fungi, and insects to eat as your diet staples. Since you are emulating hunter-gatherer tribes, any farming would have to be very minimal, and as such, you would need far more land in order to have a large enough ecosystem to forage in. And that's just forests; if you live in a semi-arid habitat or a grassland, it may be even harder to find enough food, and you would need a order of magnitude more acreage in order to come up with enough to eat.

And none of this is even considering that fact that there isn't much land available any more. You would need to go back in time several hundred years in order to be able to find land, and land would still be limited in some places, never mind the fact that you could all be enslaved or simply killed and raided to death by hostile tribes.

I'm not trying to be mean, guys, but this was doomed from the start. There are better ways to honor the ideals of Avatar anyway; running away into what seems like bountiful wilderness isn't going to fix any of the world's problems.
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Offline Tìtstewan

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Re: Pull the Plug?
« Reply #5 on: February 08, 2014, 05:04:36 am »
Alright, I originally wasn't going to reply here, because I'm not one of the tribe smuk, and the whole tribe forum is usually set read only (?) but...

None of these questions were answered. None of them.
Without answers to these questions, you all would all die, and the location you picked would be in such terrible shape ecologically by the time you were dead that it would be better off being burned.
Those questions was discussed, they KNEW about this! I don't understand, why this is mentioned here, what they should have done first, they know this already and it was discussed.
Also there is a private board where some of these tribe people also wrote something, but I don't know what.

The biggest problem is, HOW to make THAT real, which way is the best to make it real. There are some useful lands, and there are a lots of ways to build a basis of own supply with food, learning about the local animals and eatable food. Hunting isn't really necessary, if they want to safe the local environment and keep the biodiversity alive. They cannot bomb theirself back into the stone age, this doesn't work, and this was also somewhere discussed.
The biggest barrier is the money to buy useful land. Then to respect the local rights (one cannot hunt in some countries without special licences) and the tribe people itself: how are the social structure between them, is and will be it stabile? But again, this was also discussed in various topics...

This whole tribe section died just by inactivity caused by the fact that ten people cannot make those ideas real easily...expect someone of them wins in the lottory.
I just wondering, why this whole project could be so much time alive. At the begining of this project, I would made a study to this following question: How realistic is it to make this idea real? Not "realistic" in the sense if that tribe idea is possible, but in the sense HOW those guys would make that possible. I don't know if this was done before set up such a huge section. But the founders of this project knew that the money to buy land is and will be the top barrier of this whole tribe idea.

Edit: To post here where other smuk can't, isn't really useful for a discussion...
« Last Edit: February 08, 2014, 06:37:53 am by Tìtstewan »

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Offline `Eylan Ayfalulukanä

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Re: Pull the Plug?
« Reply #6 on: February 08, 2014, 08:56:57 pm »
No, it looks like any smuk can post here, and elsewhere in this forum. I have no special privileges anywhere on LearnNavi that would allow me to post in a locked forum, so this forum are not truly locked.

I also think ti should be moved to the end of the forum list, so you don't have to 'cross' it to get to the forums below it.

And I fully agree with Raiden. Its not impossible to set up a community like this, but it is so difficult, it might as well be. Historically, no other self-sufficient commune I know of has ever survived (and I studied one that fell apart, which was started by a church several centuries ago, in what is today Green Bay, Wisconsin.). For another look at a group that tried this (and almost succeeded), I recommend M. Night Shyamalan's intriguing movie, 'The Village'.

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Offline Tìtstewan

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Re: Pull the Plug?
« Reply #7 on: February 09, 2014, 05:01:32 am »
Ma 'Eylan Ayfalulukanä, you are in the LEP membergroup....
I got a message from a member, they cannot post here, expect one is in a other membergroup too.

To make a tripe group and live somewhere is possible. As I wrote, one can learn about the local animals and plants, but the thing is, how you will get land for this tribe idea? And this is the big barrier for this idea. Niri te has mentioned, that in the group should be persons who can build sometinh (house), someone who know to male food etc. Also I'm agree with Raiden. But all there mentioned point was discussed already in various topic in this tribe section, that means, the involved people for this project know this points already.
As long as no one will win in a lottory or got land as gift which he/she can share with other people and can live there autonomously, these ideas is doomed to heartbreaking impossibility. :(
« Last Edit: February 09, 2014, 05:15:30 am by Tìtstewan »

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Offline `Eylan Ayfalulukanä

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Re: Pull the Plug?
« Reply #8 on: February 11, 2014, 08:26:37 pm »
Ma 'Eylan Ayfalulukanä, you are in the LEP membergroup....
I got a message from a member, they cannot post here, expect one is in a other membergroup too.

Interesting. Not an expected behavior of the board. if a thread/forum is locked, someone from outside that forum should not be able to post. I wonder if I can create an experiment on the Dothraki board, and duplicate this behavior?

Quote from: Tìtstewan
To make a tripe group and live somewhere is possible. As I wrote, one can learn about the local animals and plants, but the thing is, how you will get land for this tribe idea? And this is the big barrier for this idea. Niri te has mentioned, that in the group should be persons who can build sometinh (house), someone who know to male food etc. Also I'm agree with Raiden. But all there mentioned point was discussed already in various topic in this tribe section, that means, the involved people for this project know this points already.
As long as no one will win in a lottory or got land as gift which he/she can share with other people and can live there autonomously, these ideas is doomed to heartbreaking impossibility. :(

Forming a tribe is relatively easy. All it takes is resources that are somewhat easily obtained (money helps!). The really hard part is being autonomous. It is virtually impossible to be completely autonomous this day in age. But if this board is more or less closed, I think we should respect that. There are other places where this conversation could be continued.

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Offline Tìtstewan

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Re: Pull the Plug?
« Reply #9 on: February 11, 2014, 08:48:44 pm »

As for the complete autonomy, it depends what the group want to have in their tribe and which kind of tribe they want to start.
And yes, a discussion is better in another pleace. :)

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Offline Niri Te

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Re: Pull the Plug?
« Reply #10 on: February 11, 2014, 09:36:44 pm »
 It looks like they pulled the plug themselves.
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