Religion 2

[The old Uriuujìn]

^_^ That is what I don't like about Christianity. It is supposed to be this religion where you can be forgiven, and there are a lot of good things about it... but what gets me is the whole Hell, Damnation, and Religious Bigotry that goes on. People may not see it all that often nowadays, but there are still Christians in the world who perpetuate violence, bigotry, and hate. This is true of every religion, don't get me wrong. I am not bias against Christianity. However, looking at a historical standpoint, a lot of crazy stuff has gone down in the name of "The Lord." Crusades, Inquisition, the KKK (Not Catholics, though ^_^;), The destruction of the Native Americans, and many other things happened because of this religious hate that all began with John 14:6.

Now, I will not be any clearer than this- I do not hate Christianity. I do not hate Christians, Muslims, or anyone for that matter based on religion or race (There are some I hate, though, for other reasons... Actions speak louder than words.), so please all of the Christians in the Audience please do not take offense ^_^;; You aren't the only ones. But my point is that I don't like the fact that Christianity can perpetuate such violence, then have the gall to claim that all people that aren't believers like them are going to suffer for all eternity after death and that they are going to have eternal happiness because they have the title of Christian.

Furthermore, if the Lord is such a loving, forgiving, and benevolent being, why did he create Hell and allow the Devil to torture those who didn't "believe" in him? I think that we invented that concept not only to scare people into behaving, but also to make those of us who see the corrupt and evil people of the world ruin it for the rest of us feel better. Think about it: When we really hate someone, what do we think. It's fine, because they're gonna burn in HELL! Am I right?

Again, please don't anyone take it personally, I know there are other sides of the argument and that sort of deal, and I hope that this isn't offensive in any way ^_^; If someone does take offense, please PM me, and I will rectify the situation ^__^

Gaia ayngahu

-Uriuujìn

['Itan Atxur]

Well so far everybody seems to be stating their points intelligently and not attacking anyone.

[Txon Taronyu]

well it was just a way of thing about it I never said you had to belive it

I never implied you said that. If you didn't want constructive criticism, why did you post your argument twice in two days asking if it made sense to people?

also the bible never really gives much info into what god is but basiclly he is the all loving creator so I still stand by what I said

Yes, He is a very specific creator. There is only one of Him, and He has many attributes which differentiate Him from the creator gods of other religions. But just being all loving does not make God love itself (the abstract concept), and I think it's fairly clear that Jesus was not referring to loving and virtuous conduct in that passage. He goes on to say in 14:21 and 15:6 that only those who abide by His commandments are beloved by God.

I like critizum its just you sounded like you were putting down the idea completely
Also all religions follow most of the commandments of Jesus
and I never said there was more then one god

[Txon Taronyu]

Sorry for the double post but my posting screen went wierd

Ya Uriuujin I totaly agree about hell

And the one thing I just don't get about christianity is this

ok so say there is a saintly buddist monk (he does not belive that Jesus is the son of god) and some jerk christian (belives in god)

according to the bible the buddist monk would go to hell and the jerk as long as he repents would go to heaven like that is just stupid

[Kìte'eyä Aungia]

I like critizum its just you sounded like you were putting down the idea completely

I'm sorry then. The bible certainly does require interpretation.

Also all religions follow most of the commandments of Jesus

Not really. Jesus says several times that not just his own teachings but also the laws of the Old Testament are binding on everyone forever.

Matthiew 5:17-19

Spoiler

Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

Almost no non-Christian religions follow all of the rules from both Jesus and the Old Testament, especially seeing as one of those rules forbids the worship of other gods.

and I never said there was more then one god

Didn't mean to imply that you had. Just pointing out that the God of the bible is fairly well defined.

[Fnua Atxkxe]

I also agree about that point. I would certainly have a higher opinion of the monk in that case. I don't think everything in the bible is meant to be taken at the literal level, otherwise it would make being a Christian next to impossible. I think the bible is more symbolic than literal, it has many good lessons to teach and so on. Ultimately I think that living a good is what is important.

[Txontaw]

Okay, can people please stop (at least sounding like you are) attacking me? They had a question, and I answered it to the best of my ability.

As has been pointed out by others, this is what's known as an argument from personal incredulity. The issue here is why should anyone, yourself included, care about what you think is way too complex and specific to have resulted from evolution? Arguments from incredulity are not a form of proof, and the fact that you likened evolution to "chance" indicates that you perhaps don't have a solid understanding of how evolution works.

The DNA/RNA process has a friggin stop bit! It works like a programming language! Yeah, that happened by evolution...

Okay. Lets say evolution did happen. People say that dolphins evolved from land animals.

So, let's take it from the top;

Land animal decides to become water animal.

Land animal starts to evolve into water animal.

At some point in there, you're going to reach a stage where the animal is a bad land animal, and a bad water animal. Thus it's going to be eaten, because it can't effectively run or swim. Therefore the process starts all over again.

Land animal can never become water animal.

Take it like this: You have to convert a car into a plane, but there's a catch. Every night, you have to either drive it or fly it down to the store and back. If you can't you're given a new car and you have to start over.

So what do you need to do to make it so it can fly? Lighten it up. So you start taking off the unnecessary weight, and you're able to still drive it.

Next day, you decide that you need to get in an airplane engine. So you take out the old engine, put in the new one. But wait! This one isn't compatible with that car at all. You can't drive it to the store that night, so it's taken away, and you're given a new car to start over on. No matter how many times you do it, you can't turn a car into a plane and still have it be functional as one or the other every step of the way.

That isn't to say that I don't think natural selection happens. But a species cannot form a new species through evolution.

And also, each species has a male and female. Wouldn't they need to evolve side by side in order to be able to produce offspring?

tl;dr version: soup + time =/= human

[Tìng Eywatikìte'e]

This is an extremely touchy topic. Let's keep it civil and stay far away from topics like "what I don't like about this religion." You may state your own beliefs, but understand that everyone has a reason to hold onto their own belief. As there is no way to prove anything 100% you can never disprove a religion, you can't prove one either.

Also let's stay away from the topic of evolution as not everyone is fully educated on it's mechanics.

[Txontaw]

This is an extremely touchy topic. Let's keep it civil and stay far away from topics like "what I don't like about this religion." You may state your own beliefs, but understand that everyone has a reason to hold onto their own belief. As there is no way to prove anything 100% you can never disprove a religion, you can't prove one either.

Also let's stay away from the topic of evolution as not everyone is fully educated on it's mechanics.

And since it has nothing to do with religion.

[Txon Taronyu]

That is so true

[Kìte'eyä Aungia]

Okay, can people please stop (at least sounding like you are) attacking me? They had a question, and I answered it to the best of my ability.

I don't think that was anyone's intention. I'm sorry if I came off that way.

Also let's stay away from the topic of evolution as not everyone is fully educated on it's mechanics.

And since it has nothing to do with religion.

Fair enough, though you are the one who brought it up. Feel free to PM me if you want to discuss the new issues you raised about evolution.

['Itan Atxur]

But nobody is attacking anyone. I think we've all proven our selves capable of handeling the big topics.

[Tìng Eywatikìte'e]

If someone feels like they were being attacked you should look over your posts again. Remember that it is easier to offend with the written word than in an actual discussion since people can't hear your tone. Religion is about as touchy as a subject gets and needs to be handled with the utmost care.

['Itan Atxur]

I have. I never attacked anyone.

[Tìng Eywatikìte'e]

I am not necessarily referring to you specifically. I was just giving a general warning to all who participate in this thread.

[Tsäroltxe te Eyrutì Tantse'itan]

Yes, I understand your point.

[Txontaw]

Okay, can people please stop (at least sounding like you are) attacking me? They had a question, and I answered it to the best of my ability.

I don't think that was anyone's intention. I'm sorry if I came off that way.

Also let's stay away from the topic of evolution as not everyone is fully educated on it's mechanics.

And since it has nothing to do with religion.

Fair enough, though you are the one who brought it up. Feel free to PM me if you want to discuss the new issues you raised about evolution.

I brought it up as a post script, I never thought it would actually be discussed.

[abi]

The DNA/RNA process has a friggin stop bit! It works like a programming language!

Because it works? If you think it's to complex to evolve, then I suggest you look at the evolution of human languages (specifically the Semitic ones).

At some point in there, you're going to reach a stage where the animal is a bad land animal, and a bad water animal. Thus it's going to be eaten, because it can't effectively run or swim. Therefore the process starts all over again.

There are a whole group of animals called amphibians which are decent at both and they survive quite well. You can also look at mammals that are in the process of this right now, say hippos (which can kill just about anything on land or in water, even being a herbivore).

You also make the mistake of a species having a start and end point. An organism is bred to suite it's immediate environment, to become the best at where it is. Evolution has no foresight.

I don't understand what you mean by "it starts all over again", evolution never stopped.

That isn't to say that I don't think natural selection happens. But a species cannot form a new species through evolution.

You can't have natural selection without evolution. An organism unfit to live doesn't get to pass on it's genes, ones that can do. This + time = evolution.

And also, each species has a male and female. Wouldn't they need to evolve side by side in order to be able to produce offspring?

You obviously have no idea how evolution or reproduction works. No parent gives birth to an offspring so different that it won't be able to reproduce with it's opposite sex (excluding sterile animals), that's the whole point of the word "species" (a group that can interbreed with one another).

[Fnua Atxkxe]

It's nice to see such a wide array of different opinions and this is certainly a healthy discussion however, could we please tone things down a little bit here, comments like this (sorry to pick one in particular, there are others);

You obviously have no idea

While there is nothing wrong with voicing opinions and discussing them, I think we all need to calm things down a bit here.

[Esmond]

I think other than the tone, abi has got everything spot on.