Starting a Movement

[Esmond]

Kaltxì ma aysmuk,

I have spent some time giving the tribe some thoughts and I thought I might have come up with a concept that might appeal to my brothers and sisters. Well, frankly the tribe doesn't have a lot of support from people, generally. Its still here because of the determination of some very strong-willed individuals. So I was wondering how we could rally support from people who isn't interested in the idea of having a tribe and also how we could avoid people leaving.

Maybe all this while, our vision was too narrow and too specific. To us, our goal is to set up a tribe and live off the land, to live a fulfilling life. But not everyone is attracted to the idea, maybe because it seems absurd, impossible or even strange. Therefore I suggest that the tribe be the driving force of a much larger cause, a movement.

Nature is rapidly being destroyed around us and it'll only be a matter of time before there'll be nothing left. That's why I see the tribe as a catalyst for raising awareness in a different way. Once we successfully set up the tribe, the tribe will be a symbol, a sign that even at this age, we choose to turn to primitive living. We'd give up the temptations of physical material and strive to be closer to Nature and also to live in a way that we can be accepted as a part of Nature. We can show the world that living off the land, living primitively doesn't have to mean taking a step back. It can be a way of life for everyone if we start to adapt now.

Also, by starting this movement, we stand a chance to provide a better environment or even just to preserve this environment for coming generations. If we just set up the tribe and live in our own world, sooner or later, those "skypeople" will come and threaten our cause. And to say that this is a movement to raise awareness would appeal more to the general public. We're not just a bunch of Avatar fan freaks who just want to live like the Na'vi, we're a bunch of people who want to see a better world and we're doing something about it. This way, even if people don't like the idea of the tribe, they'd support us as they'd see it as an effort to raise awareness.

Well that's the rough concept, I'm not sure if anyone's thought of it during the time when I'm gone but I thought I'd just express my version just as well.

So, what do you guys think?

PS. Sorry for the huge wall of text! I tried to be as concise as possible already.

[Key'ìl Nekxetse]

This has sort of been talked about, more on the Revolutionists' forum. I think it would be a good idea to try not to sound like fans to avoid not being taken seriously.
I think it's a good idea, although perhaps we should try to keep some of our origins.
Not getting support is a problem, but I think there might not be much we can about it. Hopefully the re-release and any future releases of Avatar might bring more people to this forum.

[Esmond]

Yeah, its not quite a change from our original objective. Its just that our efforts could have a bigger impact if they were projected in a different way.

[Maweya Hufwe]

This is one of the things I feel has me a little split with this project. I love the concept of the Na'vi and their tribal lifestyle. But to me, 'tribal' and 'primitive' are not the same thing. My views reflect more of Esmond's views than what I feel the majority's are (hence the need for a vision statement).

Personally, I want the tribe to be an example of an alternative way of living that works. A way of living that brings the togetherness of a tribal community, with the smart technologies of today, yet is strongly self-sufficient and gives back to the earth the same amount of care the earth gives us.  In this, I'd like to show the world that there is a simpler way of life that isn't a step backwards, but a re-visioning of our current step and future. Show that there is a way to live off the land without damaging it and still be able to expand our abilities to create (i.e. technologies) that don't harm the land, but instead rejuvenate it. A tribe is a people, not a standard of living. The world is damaged. Nature and man are in a huge amounts of pain from viewing each other as separate. I'd like to help in the healing process that isn't just setting up huts and starting from square one. I know I'm sounding like a broken record, but I honestly encourage people to look at the Lammas Project I provided links to in another thread. With more emphasis on tribal community and a bit of aesthetic change, it provides a very good model for us and will probably gain quite a bit of support for us -especially considering our project is international. Low-impact living, off-grid technologies that don't damage the Earth, working the land and giving back to it, being help to the outside world and showing a new way of life that is both fulfilling and freeing. Being a fan isn't bad, it's just what areas of the fandom we bring out from it that matters.

The part that makes things more worrisome for me is this insistence of 'primitive' livelihoods, as if that's the only way to be one with nature. The elves of Tolkien were one with nature and hardly primitive. I think this emphasis will be our undoing and may be more harmful than necessary.

[Esmond]

Yes, exactly the point. Thank you.

I agree that being one with Nature doesn't necessarily mean being primitive. Perhaps some people may find it more um...fulfilling? =)

I'll definitely go check out the Lammas Project.

[Key'ìl Nekxetse]

I'm not sure which is the best thing to attempt.
My worry is that if we continue to use much technology, then there is no way to avoid damaging nature.
Think about a piece of technology for a while. Where does it come from.
Maybe a computer, a symbol of the modern age. The main resources used are metal (aluminium, silicon, gold, copper), plastics and electricity.
Skip the spoiler if you think you've already got the point; lots of stuff gets used!

Spoiler

Metal comes from mining, on a massive scale. We're almost certainly talking about a huge hole in the ground here. It's then processed. Aluminium in particular uses unimaginable quantities of electricity. The main part of the process uses electrolysis to purify the aluminium, this requires extremely large amounts of power.
Most other metals are processed by heating them with a reducing agent. Again this requires large amounts of energy.
Modern plastics are mostly made using petroleum. There are well known issues with how crude oil is attained.
Circuit boards are made using cotton paper or glass fibre and epoxy. This has a layer of copper applied and a lacquer to protect it. The circuit is then etched using ferric chloride or a similar abrasive chemical (these chemicals are also toxic). This removes copper that has not been covered with the lacquer.
Most components are made from silicon and a photosensitive layer that then have a pattern projected onto them before being etched, similar to making a circuit board but at a much smaller scale. These are then coated with plastic or epoxy and become the small black chips that people are used to seeing in modern electronics. Other components are generally made using plastics, silicon, germanium, graphite, ceramic, copper, glass, and epoxy.
More energy is used to add the components to the board.
When the device is running it can use up to 250 watts, not including a screen, speakers, graphics card, printer...

Just one piece of technology requires large scale mining, drilling for oil, power and other things. It causes damaging pollution.
Solar panels and wind turbines are good, they get power without petroleum and uranium, but they still cause damage during manufacture. At the moment they use plastic, silicon, copper, glass, epoxy, aluminium and energy in the same way that computers do.

Sorry for a rant and a long post, but I think it will be difficult to use modern technology and not cause destruction. I like my computer, but I'd rather leave an intact planet and take up foraging and woodwork. I could be wrong about some of these facts, if you want check, do! Perhaps things are better, but sadly I think I may be right.

Tse, end of "we're all doomed, run away!", I think at this point we should be aiming to use as little technology as possible but I think we will have to use modern clothing, tools, and electronics in a limited way until we can find better methods.

[Maweya Hufwe]

I think that's too short a view of technology. Heck, a bow and arrow is considered technology. Technology and electronics are not the same thing. Technology can include such things as composting wastes (for plants and toilets, for example), to networks that purify water without harmful wastes and simply tossing things. Technology could what we use to store food in or insulate our homes. It could describe gardening and the use of raised beds and rotating beds from one to the other to preserve soil wellness. Solar panels, wind turbines, to even the way we harvest rain water with the hookups on our buildings and use reed beds to purify our greywater. Not everything has to have a plug or be made of plastic or metal...

[Esmond]

Well it really depends on how we define advancements. Maybe what Maweya Hufwe was suggesting is that we find ways to progress in a non-damaging way. She's trying to say that we don't have to live primitively in order to be non-damaging. We can utilise certain technologies to make life easier. Technology like life science or engineering even design. Technology is not all about computers and electronics.

EDIT: Ah...Maweya beat me to it lol. I was just going to post when you posted already. Typing on the iPod is slow.

[Maweya Hufwe]

Perhaps I should have slowed down! Esmond you said everything I did in half the amount of words 

[Predict]

Firstly I would be very hesitant to call this a movement, it carries connotations of forced, large-scale change (think anarcho-primitivist label), very different to simply demonstrating a lifestyle.
I think we are unanimous in our agreement to avoid references to fiction. N****.

We should stop wasting time trying to define exactly who we are, obviously even we don't know but we have enough common ground to be working together so I wouldn't worry. We are all settled on the tribal community structure, self sufficiency, and technology. Last I heard any was fine provided it was wholly sustainably produced, that's not a lot but it's not limiting either.

Don't expect to change the world with this one idea, we can have an impact but don't lose sight of our original goal in the attempt. If we wanted we could simply start a charity but that's not why we're here are we? Last time I checked half the idea was to live primitively, just being sustainable is a job for the rest of the world.

[Key'ìl Nekxetse]

Na'vì! Na'vì! Na'vì! Na'vì! Na'vì! Na'vì! Na'vì! Na'vì! Na'vì! Na'vì! Na'vì!
I think we should remember what inspired us, but not be limited by it.

Sorry, I'm a bit of a computer geek, so I instantly think computers!
I agree, things like reed beds, rain water harvesting and other innovations are a good thing. But I'd prefer them not to be made of plastic! (Bark? Wood?)

We need to be realistic, but if there's a chance to save the world, why not?

[Esmond]

Key'ìl, yes that's true. I'm not trying to shift our goals but I'm just sayin that what we are dong here can be used as a great example to support a form of movement. We can be a form of inspiration. So again I'm only saying we project ourselves to people in a slightly different way. This way people will perhaps be more open to our idea.

[Predict]

I think it's always been our intention to be open to the world (keeping blogs and such) but there's a lot more progress to be made before we need such publicity. Imagine trying to talk to a newspaper about what we're doing. "Tell us a bit about your project" "Well...we like the environment...trees are good too...so are tribes...umm...that's all." It wouldn't be that bad but it wouldn't be great.

[Esmond]

Yeah well I'm not saying we are not open; we are open. It's that apart from only telling people that we do this fir our own, we do this also for the sake of the rest of the world. We want to show the world something, that it is our intention also to be an inspiration for others to rethink how they see nature.

[Predict]

I think we do do this for the sake of the world. Hopefully we can prove an inspiration for others, and maybe we will lead others to question modern assumptions about the nature of technology and progress.

It would be good if when we are established (mid next year then ), we can have an open visitor policy, maybe run survival/awareness courses or similar. Something like that would also do wonders on the immigration front, actually providing a service.

But again, let's not get bogged down by classifying ourselves and focus on doing something.

[Key'ìl Nekxetse]

I agree.

Doing something, hmm, an update?

[Esmond]

Well that's all to my proposal. You seem to already have that going on so I'm really happy. It's good to know.

[Key'ìl Nekxetse]

Making a note here: FUTURE SUCCESS!
Misquoting portal, because we can...

[Yeynari]

We can't save the world.

Maybe I sound like a doomsayer now, but it's true. Humans cannot save the planet. The Earth will save herself, with or without us. What we can do, however, is to give her the chance to do so. For that to happen, we need to change course. We also cannot save our civilization-that-be, it will go down sooner or later because the steps that we as a species must take right this moment to save it will never be taken on a large enough scale. But the more who do so, even if it's a small number of people, will ably show others that and how a long-term change works in practice. They will also have a better chance of surviving (and hopefully even live well during) the coming crash.

You already know who/what you/we are. Earthlings and smart, sensible ones at that. I don't think we have need for labels other than that, the most important one.

[Esmond]

"But the more who do so, even if it's a small number of people, will ably show others that and how a long-term change works in practice." - I cannot agree more.

Yes, it is absolutely true that we can't save the world. It'd be very arrogant to say so. Like you said, we can help Nature help us. Nature doesn't care if we go extinct because she'll have her ways of maintaining life on Earth. But the problem is, we can't survive without her. So by protecting her from the greed and ignorance of men, by preserving and helping her return to her best state, we are actually saving ourselves.

Well, you can't be sure that everyone are Earthlings. I've heard or read about people who're even worse than animals.

EDIT: What I really wanted to say is that some people are exceptionally awful. I used the phrase worse than animals because I admit, its been commonly used to describe really bad people. I really did not intend to say that animals are worse than humans.