Time to get a move on!

[Key'ìl Nekxetse]

If you watch Doctor Who: "Allons-y!"  
I have some time now, thanks to the summer holiday, so I'm making a start on some research I've been meaning to do.
I started a new thread as I intend to post information on a few areas (Ticks certainly, probably other nasties).
I think parasites and diseases could be a "show stopper", so I'm investigating how widespread they are and how they can be avoided. Reading sites related to survival and outdoor activity, a large problem appears to be the tick.
Ticks
Ticks are a parasite that waits in long grass until an animal passes, which they climb on to. They then feed on the animals blood. The main problem with them is their growing population and the spread of tick carried diseases, in particular Lyme disease. Ticks are most active in April, May and June and can be a problem from April to October (Source: www.euro.who.int/__data/assets/pdf_file/0006/96819/E89522.pdf, World Health Organisation)
.

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Distribution of Lyme Disease
Some looking around reveals these maps, covering the areas where Lyme disease has been recorded.

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Avoidance
Ticks can be avoided with clothes to cover areas (legs, arms), trousers, sleeves and waists should be sealed by tying a cord around them (information source is questionable, but likely to be correct). Insect repellent is fairly effective but may not be an option as it requires manufacturing, although there may be some natural alternatives. Lyme disease itself can cured with antibiotics administered soon after infection.

I hope this isn't depressing or off-putting, but it needs looking at.
Eywa ngahu!

Nang! Ngatxoa, this may be in the wrong place! 

[Key'ìl Nekxetse]

Hookworm
The hookworm is an intestinal parasite that can effect mammals, particularly humans, dogs and cats. They enter either from ingested faeces or through bare feet.

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Don't come into direct contact with soil in heavily infected places. Don't eat anything contaminated with faeces!
Wuchereria bancrofti
A worm that can enter via mosquito bites.

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Various drugs can be used to treat an infection that has not reached the final phase.
Ascaris
Can enter through ingestion of faeces.

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Again, don't eat things you shouldn't!

Intestinal and soil transmitted parasite maps:

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[Key'ìl Nekxetse]

Malaria
A plasmodium that can be spread by mosquito.

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There are anti malaria drugs available but they have side effects so they cannot be used for a long period. Insecticide and mosquito nets can be used to try and avoid infection.

[Tsteu'itan]

To be honest, the threat of parasites is the biggest reason I'm so worried that the tribe has decided to live in a tropical climate.  People don't seem to realize sometimes just how big of an issue they are in those areas.  You also have to remember the Tsetse fly, I believe it's called, where the fly will lay their eggs in clothing or other things that will rest next to the skin so that when the larvae hatch, they then burrow under the flesh and you don't realize it until they're large and have created swollen, oozing sores.  It's actually quite hideous and gives me the SUPER-willies!   

You're going to have the risk of infection and parasites of various kinds no matter what climate you have.  Even in Texas, we have something similar to the fly called "Chiggers," that live in tall grasses in somewhat marshy areas, like around lakes.  When you walk through the grass, they "hitch a ride," and then burrow under your skin and cause itchy sores until they eventually die and your body absorbs them.  They're not necessarily dangerous from what I've heard, but it's extremely unpleasent.  In tropical regions, parasites are especially nasty.

There's also a brain-worm related to the hookworm.  It's ingested and once it's larvae hatch from the eggs, they travel to the brain and other vital organs and feed on the body.  This can cause seizures and death in the worst cases.

I don't want to discourage anyone from joining the tribe and continuing with their plans, of course, I just really hope people will take an extremely close look at the dangers of the parasites of living in tropical areas before definitely deciding on that location, and then if they do, being sure that they become experts as much as possible on how to avoid and cure - if it's possible  - the different species.  It just worries me a great deal that once the tribe is set up, there will be a horrible something because of the nasty things that can get into people and cause so many problems.  It'd be so sad for me to hear about anything unfortunate befalling the members.  Maybe I worry too much, but that's just my thoughts on it.  :<

[Txonari]

That's a good point. I wonder if a tropical environment is really a good idea? If we were to go with a cooler-climate area, I think we would have more of a chance. Not saying somewhere where there's freezing winters, etc. But even mildly cooler would work.

[Key'ìl Nekxetse]

My thoughts, almost exactly, ma Tseuitan! Doing research into nematodes for this really gave me the creeps! Still, there's always a risk in life, although some are worse than others.
Where good areas on the climate map are the same as empty bits on the parasite maps are probably better choices. I wonder if a temperate forest would be better, I've seen some places that would almost be good here in the UK, if only it was warmer!

[Tsteu'itan]

:<  I had a huge post typed up, but my computer overheated and shut down, so I lost it.  Pooh.

ANYWAY!  As I was saying, I don't know if it would be something that was up for debate anymore, since I know a loooot of people have their hearts set on super-tropical rainforested regions.  I just wish that the semi-tropical rainforested regions had been given a second thought.  Places like Hawaii and Australia have some extremely beautiful rainforest land, and as far as I know (feel free to correct me if I'm wrong) there are hundreds of islands in Hawaii.  Granted, land there could be really expensive, buuuut...if you made floating islands like the thread I created about a man who made a self-sustaining island out of recycled coke bottles, you could avoid the land tax.    *just likes the idea, really.*  You could then plant some of the plants that are native to Hawaii (or Australia, if you prefer) and have your own floating rainforest within a few years. 

Still, I think that going to places like that would be easier in the long run.  It's not as severe tropical as the places open for consideration right now, and since they're "westernized" countries, it would be easier to know and understand the local laws and flora and fauna.  It would also be closer to a state-of-the-art medical facility, should any unforeseen events actually occur.  You'd have the nice, natural lifestyle, you could have your isolation if you could find a way to get the land, and you could have a place that's more easily accessible to those who hear about - and later join - the tribe in the future.  It would also be a lot easier to arrange transportation when the final move comes to those places.

And, like I said, you could avoid a lot of the problems with the nasties that occur in the more wild-and-woolly parts of the world.  Because let's face it.  I'm willing to bet 9/10 people in this forum are pretty westernized, and the transition - even from very backwoods, rural Industrialized to pure severe tropical tribal - would be more then most of us could take.

I'm not trying to be negative, I'm really not.  I'm just speaking out of worry that people aren't stopping to weigh the pros and cons properly.  As far as I see it, the cons of super-tropical outweigh the pros.

[Txonari]

Exactly. I really think a moderately-temperate area would be best. Especially for people that are so used to moderate temperatures that they wouldn't be able to take the heat of a tropical environment.

[Predict]

This has been considered and there remained a strong majority for the tropics. It's easy in this type of situation to focus only on the dangers of where we are and the benefits of where we could be, grass is greener...

Moderately temperate is vague, our back-up climate is Moist Mid-Latitude (Mild Winter) if no suitable location is found in the tropics, I imagine this is what you're getting at.

Topical Australia is still being considered, parasites and diseases are minimal and medical care is good. But, national park... Otherwise it's a huge lot of really nice tropical rainforest, (kind of goes into subtropical but only just, safe to call it all tropical).

[Key'ìl Nekxetse]

It's true that I'm focusing on the risks, but it is a major factor to consider, none of want to be critically ill!
If we can find somewhere where there are few parasites but the correct climate then would be ideal. I'm also spending some time to look at some more parasites so we can see better what areas are covered.
Tsetse Fly
The tsetse fly is an African parasitic insect the feeds on the blood of humans and other vertebrates. It can cause infection of Tripanosomiasis. Treatment exists and is carried out over around ten days but must take place quickly. Control of the disease and the carrier can regulate the spread to some degree.

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[Tsteu'itan]

I think the fly I was thinking about was the bot-fly?  Those may be separate-but-also-parasitic insects, though, so it's worth looking into them.  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Botfly

And I'm glad to hear that Australia is still being looked into.  That's a little weight off my mind.  From what I'd seen, it looked like deep tropics was only being considered, and I was starting to get really worried.   

And I know it's not good to focus on the cons when there are pros as well, I just think it's best to look at which outweighs the other and go from there, if that makes sense?

While the tropics look amazing and match the look of the movie that brought us all here, it's also good to keep in mind that the land in rainforests is often-times very hard to grow things on.  You wouldn't want to do wide-spread farming, true, but even a little farming to supplement what you can hunt or gather with things you know for a fact will be readily available will be hard.  The parasites and animals in those regions can often be extremely dangerous, as can the non-animalia diseases.  The intense heat can sometimes be very hard for people to deal with, and the weather itself can cause troubles when trying to set up living facilities.  Monsoons can flood quickly and wipe out a lot of work that's been done.

With the Pros, it is absolutely beautiful land, and there are often more animals in these regions that can be hunted.  There are no harsh winters - only dry seasons from what I've seen - and with the fact that the plant life doesn't go into dormancy for part of the year, finding food may be easier all year round then it is in other places.  I'm not sure if the plants have "Blooming seasons," though, so even with the greenery staying all year, I don't know if the food would.

We could try setting up a list of Pros/Cons for the regions to be reviewed which might make it easier to decide.  If the pros of the tropics outweigh the cons, then I'm more then willing to eat my hat on this one.  After all, I was skeptical about the entire concept for a long time.  It's a lovely idea, and could bring a lot of attention to the global ecology if given enough media attention, making people stop and think, but I half expected it to just die out after a few weeks.  When people started dropping out, I figured it was time, but then the past couple of weeks, the numbers have skyrocketed, so I was really surprised.

[Predict]

We have done pros/cons, not thoroughly but as much as people were willing. For the time being I think we should stick to the tropics, we always have a back-up region we know is nearly as popular. There is more to gain from focus, even if it leads to dismissing the tropics, than from backing out of this decision and starting over.

Worst case scenario, tropics fail, no where suitable, horrific diseases everywhere . At least we are certain of it, then our experience would help a lot with whatever region we moved on to. Really, really doubt this will happen but at least it wouldn't be all bad.

Like I've said before, even the tropics offer a big diversity of environments (even desert) so don't worry about that, Australia is still very much on the table. Regarding seasons, the equatorial regions are aseasonal, they often feature annual rainfall cycles but not always. I know foreign crops tend to still follow growing seasons but I don't know about local flora.

[guest2859]

My only pessimistic side of this is the thing failing completely,
but I'm sticking with my optimistic side.

[Tsteu'itan]

I'm kind of worried that the only people who seem to be on here at all are the four of us.    I know the numbers showed much higher on the poll, so I wonder where everyone is.  Not even the old regulars seem to be here anymore.

[Txonari]

I'm kind of worried that the only people who seem to be on here at all are the four of us.    I know the numbers showed much higher on the poll, so I wonder where everyone is.  Not even the old regulars seem to be here anymore.

Could be that people got bored with it once they realized that it involved research and collaboration, instead of just diving into it.

Or maybe people are getting discouraged by the numbers of "I'm leaving" threads there are around here.

Well, if everyone else has left, I wish they'd at least notify the rest of us.

[Key'ìl Nekxetse]

An "Are you still there?" poll?

[Txonari]

That would work... though I'm kinda afraid to see the results.

[Key'ìl Nekxetse]

Right, done. I wait with baited breath and pale complexion!
Just have to hope now.
Ayoeng hu Eywa livu!

[keftxo]

This has been considered and there remained a strong majority for the tropics. It's easy in this type of situation to focus only on the dangers of where we are and the benefits of where we could be, grass is greener...

Very true, however, historically human's didn't involve to live in rain-forests and the like That's actually sort of the reason people walk upright, to allow further travel over sparse environments. I think it might be a worthwhile venture to think about where people evolved as the best sort of environment for a tribe to start up. (Humans have managed to live in other environments, but they're not ideal. Sometimes the path of least resistance is the best)

[Tonbogiri]

Keftxo is right. We have evolved to travel over sparser terrain, particularly savannah grassland.
However, one case for the tropics is the feasability of what we are doing. For a tribe operating on open plains, food sources can become very scarce in a short amount of time, and shelter is extremely limited. Temperatures can often flucuate more (though forest only partially reduces this effect), and those tribes still around today are having the most difficulty surviving if they live on open plains.

Perhaps a compromise - a more temperate climate?