Traditions and Rites of Passage

[Tuteyä amuiä 'itan]

I share this with all of you, to whom might consider getting the same thing.
No one has done this yet, Im sure I'll be the first.
But not the last.

Eywa ngahu

this is not true it has been done before. someone from another Na'vi forum has done it. heres the link http://www.avatar-forums.com/general-discussion-forum/4300-first-avatar-tattoo.html

and i also would like 2 get this done

[Eawnyu te Tisorina'Srusiyu'ite]

I saw a lengthy discussion on getting Na'vi tattoos done that way before, though I can't remember where.  It may have been on this board.  Unfortunately, it turns out that the UV ink is highly unstable, and only lasts for a short while before you have to be back in the tattoo parlor, getting every bit of it redone.  :/  Just something to keep in mind.

omg that sucks. reading everyones posts on the tattoos, and from a  little i know about diff tribes in the world tattoos are considered right of passage. knowing some ppl have aversions to needles im sure exceptions could be made for those who have aversions but then again like i read in another post/reply could cause segregations problems with in the tribe..... dont get me wrong i love the idea of tattoos as tribe identification. but then again u have to think about it. society still doesnt quite accept tats in the open. i know that doesnt really fit here cause the tribe is gonna be away from society. but with some of the other ideas ive seen tossed around and money making options there may be some associations with outsiders and some of the na'vi may work outside the tribe helping keep us afloat. some might discover that they cant really handle the tribe way and this (unfortunately) begs the question what happens if some one leaves the tribe and they have a tattoo. they arent cheap to remove and could be complicated to cover up both = expensive fix.......  just something to think about. brands are still a no in my book.... way too painful and like someone said before a sign of shame.... but then again some tribes do scarification... there is an option i havent seen on here. hmm...that one could be taken in to account maybe.....oks what do u all think about that one? scarification i mean.

[Tsteu'itan]

Any sort of body modifications has the risk of causing phobic reactions in people.  There really should be ways that everyone in the tribe could use, whether or not they're at all comfortable with someone taking needles/brands/knives/razors to their body.

For me, scarification is just as bad - if not possibly a little worse - then a tattoo.  Anything that involves puncturing/slicing/causing trauma to the body other then simple ear piercings makes me extremely queasy with just the thought.  It's possible that there are others like that.

Just watching a documentary on a tribe that did scarification rituals on their children made me physically ill.  They weren't that bad, just very small slits on their faces, but the simple act being explained and shown on the tv was enough to make me feel like i was going to pass out.

That being said, even if the tribe is away from society, it's still impossible to make someone completely forget their own social taboos, even if they are separated from the society that created them.  You have to take into consideration that it may not even be that the people getting the identifying mark or symbol or object would worry about outside influences being offended by body modification, but that there are simply some people who would find the concept reprehensible and would not want one under any circumstances.  They could be very much a part of the tribe, but they did not in fact grow up there, and as such, they will have their own sets of social taboos and morals that will influence them.  Those sorts of things take many generations to instill in a society.

[Na’ringHufwe]

To clear things up......
UV ink is not unstable, I would like to know where you came across that lol.
UV ink is safer than regular ink used in tattooing,
UV ink does NOT fade compared to regular ink.
UV ink CANNOT be seen during the day time. (Only under a purple or blue light)
UV ink is the ONLY tattoo ink that is FDA approved! (Safest ink to use, has zero side effects)

A tattoo is something you should get if it "truly means" something to you.
The Na'vi culture is something I hold dear, it means so much to me I would get the tattoo's.
To remind me every day what to live for, to remind me of others who are like minded and share my thoughts and feelings about the world and its people.

If someone leaves the tribe, thats their decision.
I believe that the "tribe" does not consist of people who can possibly anger you enough to leave.
The "tribe" is the adoption of the Na'vi culture, at least thats how I see it.
Anyone can adopt the culture, because the culture itself was created by like minded individuals.....(us.)

[Eawnyu te Tisorina'Srusiyu'ite]

Any sort of body modifications has the risk of causing phobic reactions in people.  There really should be ways that everyone in the tribe could use, whether or not they're at all comfortable with someone taking needles/brands/knives/razors to their body.

For me, scarification is just as bad - if not possibly a little worse - then a tattoo.  Anything that involves puncturing/slicing/causing trauma to the body other then simple ear piercings makes me extremely queasy with just the thought.  It's possible that there are others like that.

Just watching a documentary on a tribe that did scarification rituals on their children made me physically ill.  They weren't that bad, just very small slits on their faces, but the simple act being explained and shown on the tv was enough to make me feel like i was going to pass out.

That being said, even if the tribe is away from society, it's still impossible to make someone completely forget their own social taboos, even if they are separated from the society that created them.  You have to take into consideration that it may not even be that the people getting the identifying mark or symbol or object would worry about outside influences being offended by body modification, but that there are simply some people who would find the concept reprehensible and would not want one under any circumstances.  They could be very much a part of the tribe, but they did not in fact grow up there, and as such, they will have their own sets of social taboos and morals that will influence them.  Those sorts of things take many generations to instill in a society.

i meant no offense ma tsmuke, like i said i was just wanting to know what you all thought, personally i dont think brands/scarification are a good idea. too much risk of infection. i myself have an aversion to needles/being cut on but i have piercings (4 total right now, go figure XD). i havent really touched on the tribes that do scarification, ill prolly do more research on tribal rites of passage. still though, ur input was very helpful . i was thinking that something like when the Na'vi make their first clean kill and prove themselves a very skilled hunter, the are able to make their bow from Hometree. something like that could work, only the bow could be more elaborately carved, you know, something along those lines. it has many possibilities...im going to see what i can find on other tribes and prolly post some links for you and see what you think... 

[Tsteu'itan]

There was no offense taken, I'm sorry.    I just tend to have very visceral reactions to those sorts of things, so I might have sounded like I was becoming angry when I wasn't.  My apologies.

There are some really good documentaries out there on those types of things.  Even when they made me squirm and light-headed, it was still pretty fascinating to see how the tribe worked together and bonded through the experiences, though even some of the members of those societies had strong feelings against it.  There were some mothers in the tribe I saw - sorry, can't remember the name - that couldn't watch the ritual because it effected them so badly.  But it was something they felt they had to do, because it was what made them a part of the tribe, and without it, they would never belong and it would have been like refusing them their identity.  They were actually kind of pretty, it was just a series of lines on the face and scalp all cut into the skin with a thin blade, sort of the same way you have the weave of a blanket imprinted on your face when you sleep funny, but permanent and uniformly geometric.  They did it when they children were very, very young, so they would have no memories of it, but it was just a very scary thing to see.

The tribal identifier that I always loved was the group that puts the rings around their necks and changes the shape of their rib cages until their necks look longer then they really are.  Some people see it as grotesque, I'm sure, but I just see it as soooo beautiful, very elegant and graceful.  Almost like humans with Na'vi necks.   

[Eawnyu te Tisorina'Srusiyu'ite]

its cool,  . lol. yeah i've seen a few on the tribes that have the neck rings and SUPER gauges in their ears and lip. meanings behind the gauges are awsome though, if a lil bizzar.( i have gauges but yeah im not that extreme XD mine are still small compared to the usual  (what a few of my friends have  )). i looked at some of the scarification, yeah it is really pretty but i wouldnt go there... tattoos yeah but not on my face.... still would be nice to actually know what.....IDEA, need to start a few polls on things like whether or not tatts or the like are what everyone wants...just so we know what we can rule out and go from there, would be so much easier... example- "do u think u could sit through a tattoo?"; "tatoos yea or nay" would start alot more boards on the subject but, would get us the feed back we need.....just an idea 

[Txontaw]

For those who are afraid of needles or are allergic to the ink, or any other reason for not wanting to get a tattoo, you can have a permanent necklace or bracelet. I almost like that idea better than a tattoo. Plus, then it's not permanent.

[Predict]

I definitely agree that these sort of symbols or decorations can help unify the tribe, looking at these existing tribal communities gets some good ideas for how they bond as a community. I wouldn't be concerned about making any decisions now though.
I have to say I too would prefer armbands or the like because we can make them, I wouldn't like the idea of identifying ourselves with tattoos we have had made by someone outside the tribe, kind of defeats the purpose.

[Eawnyu te Tisorina'Srusiyu'ite]

the tattoo doesnt have to be done by someone outside the tribe. its an easy thing to "learn" to do, the courses for it are not that expensive the ink and everything can be depending on where u get it. one of the tribe could always learn how to do it. but it does take tons of practice for the person to be awsome, unless they are naturally gifted at it. im all for most of the ideas. armbands, necklace, tattoo.

[Eywayä lì'u]

but with modern tattoos, It's not exactly going alongside the meaning of this tribe with electronic needles and manufactured inks and such. Accessories are a much better idea

[Predict]

That's what I was thinking. We don't really want to be buying in ink and needles to tattoo ourselves when we could make other 'accessories' with local materials.  Body paint is a good alternative as well, very na'vi-y.

[Eawnyu te Tisorina'Srusiyu'ite]

but with modern tattoos, It's not exactly going alongside the meaning of this tribe with electronic needles and manufactured inks and such. Accessories are a much better idea

haha true true, i didnt think about that. XD

That's what I was thinking. We don't really want to be buying in ink and needles to tattoo ourselves when we could make other 'accessories' with local materials.  Body paint is a good alternative as well, very na'vi-y.

yeah its moderately easy to make the paints from materials in the area the tribe will be. although, the ppl will have to test the pain on themselves before using it to make sure there are no skin allergies to the ingredients...... only drawback i can see with it...could definately work

[Tompa'Ivong]

Black is commonly derived from charred wood (carbon), as far as other colors I forget, often flowers and other flora are used for the other colors, sometimes red can be derived from Iron Oxide.  I find that natural colors have far fewer adverse effects than manufactured colors

[Tsteu'itan]

ochre is a ground up mineral.  But on this note, some colors are hard to make from natural materials.  Blues, for instance, and greens. 

[Tompa'Ivong]

and dont forget certain varieties of clays, and sometimes yellow/green come from decaying plant matter, or other earthen material.  Blue is somewhat hard to derive, most the blues used in art are derived from minerals like cobalt, arsenic, and other heavy metals(not good lol).  White is fairly easy by what I know, just forgot what is commonly used.

[Tsteu'itan]

Here in texas, we have a mineral - I don't know the name of it off the top of my head - but it comes in clumps, it's hard like a rock, but you can scrape it against concrete and it acts like chalk.  we always played with it in grade school in place of sidewalk chalk, even though they didn't want us to.    I keep wanting to think it's "Caliche" rock.  It would have been a good substitute for a white ochre.

[Tompa'Ivong]

yea, i live in texas, its prolly derived from calcium carbonate or a zinc oxide, im guessing.  more of likely calcium derived due to the fact that part of Texas was once a seabed

[Tuteyä amuiä 'itan]

i know calcium carbonate mixed with water makes a highly flammable gas call acetylene (used in old coal mining helmets for light) 

[Tompa'Ivong]

if it is pure and not locked up in another mineral, ((remembering stuff from chemistry lol)), CaCO + H2O I know you end up with hydrogen gas and an acid, and the reaction is exothermic

However ZnO is nontoxic =)